No, I'm saying that if they're already going to a station with a different name from the one they've been told to go to then why will changing the name of one of the stations have any effect?
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Metropolitan Line Extension (MLX/Croxley Rail Link)
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No, I'm saying that if they're already going to a station with a different name from the one they've been told to go to then why will changing the name of one of the stations have any effect?
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Because the reason they're going to the Met station is that it's got the 'principal' name.
philthetube
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Yes, now wetherspoons, it surprises me that they didn't give it an appropriate name as they sometimes do.
The station is known locally as Watford Met, but outsiders wouldn't necessarily know that. It is in the middle of nowhere.
When it looked like the Metropolitan Line extension was going to go ahead, there was a huge amount of campaigning by well-connected locals on the Cassiobury estate to keep Watford Met open. Decision was then taken on economic grounds that it would still be closed. Then the project was mothballed and the arguments stopped. Please don't start them again!
It's actually a real shame that the project was shelved, as traffic on the west side of Watford is dreadful and it would have made connections into Watford Junction much easier.
Although would have been better all round if the original plan to extend from Watford Met to the Junction station had been followed through. Although there would still be letters in the Watford Observer now about what the two stations in the High Street should be called.
When it looked like the Metropolitan Line extension was going to go ahead, there was a huge amount of campaigning by well-connected locals on the Cassiobury estate to keep Watford Met open. Decision was then taken on economic grounds that it would still be closed. Then the project was mothballed and the arguments stopped. Please don't start them again!
It's actually a real shame that the project was shelved, as traffic on the west side of Watford is dreadful and it would have made connections into Watford Junction much easier.
Although would have been better all round if the original plan to extend from Watford Met to the Junction station had been followed through. Although there would still be letters in the Watford Observer now about what the two stations in the High Street should be called.
This thread has been reopened for @DynamicSpirit to provide an update.
DynamicSpirit
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Thanks @Mojo. The update is perhaps more for amusement value as I doubt it will currently lead to anything changing - but Shaun Bailey, the Conservative candidate for Mayor of London, has apparently started campaigning on the issue of the Metropolitan line extension - as shown in this recent tweet and accompanying video.
I'm not sure if he's breaking the record for most misinformed piece of campaigning though. Aside from that he's campaigning in Hertfordshire for Mayor of London, and he seems to be unaware that the extension was mothballed only after the costs rose so that it was no longer fully funded, in the video he claims that by cancelling the extension, Sadiq Khan has put Watford Met station at risk, and implies that if the extension is built, that will secure the future of Watford station! Ummm......
ShaunBailey said:
I'm not sure if he's breaking the record for most misinformed piece of campaigning though. Aside from that he's campaigning in Hertfordshire for Mayor of London, and he seems to be unaware that the extension was mothballed only after the costs rose so that it was no longer fully funded, in the video he claims that by cancelling the extension, Sadiq Khan has put Watford Met station at risk, and implies that if the extension is built, that will secure the future of Watford station! Ummm......
I'm not sure if he's breaking the record for most misinformed piece of campaigning though. Aside from that he's campaigning in Hertfordshire for Mayor of London, and he seems to be unaware that the extension was mothballed only after the costs rose so that it was no longer fully funded, in the video he claims that by cancelling the extension, Sadiq Khan has put Watford Met station at risk, and implies that if the extension is built, that will secure the future of Watford station! Ummm......
Wow. Words don't do it justice, do they? Just... wow!
edwin_m
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They could do worse than elect the young, dynamic LibDem, Luisa Porritt.
I would have expected Caroline Pidgeon to take her shot. I guess she's happy in the Assembly?
What a fantastic read!
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philthetube
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I seem to remember that the first time Ken ran for Mayor there were advertising hoardings up, supporting him. So this is not the first time.
The extension would be beneficial for many people who do live in London though. I live in north west London & being able to access Watford town centre easier would be of benefit to me and many people whom I know in the area who would benefit from easier access. Visiting Watford is quite popular in this area for shopping as it has many retailers that are not available locally.I'm not sure if he's breaking the record for most misinformed piece of campaigning though. Aside from that he's campaigning in Hertfordshire for Mayor of London, and he seems to be unaware that the extension was mothballed only after the costs rose so that it was no longer fully funded, in the video he claims that by cancelling the extension, Sadiq Khan has put Watford Met station at risk, and implies that if the extension is built, that will secure the future of Watford station! Ummm......
matt_world2004
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I would have thought that there would be no journey time benefit for anyone east and/or south of harrow on the hill station as from that point it becomes quicker to get a bus to harrow wield and then the train.
And it's not really in the purvew of the London government to encourage shopping in Watford. The real benefit of the scheme was to greatly improve access to Watford from places like Amersham and Aylesbury which are not in London
Imho it should have been heavily financed by the DfT with the business case being improved significantly by Aylesbury to Watford junction direct services.
The deal Boris Johnson did for TfL was terrible. Not only did it place London taxpayers on the line for a significant amount of the cost . Most of Watford councils contribution was inkinded through land deals that were overvalued together with a requirement that fare box revenue went to watford council for stations on the metropolitan line extension until Watford councils contribution was related.
I’m not talking about anyone south of Harrow. Travelling from Northwood, back to Harrow to catch a bus for 40
Min makes no sense when it’s a 15 Min drive.
The extension also opens up access to employment via public transport.
Indeed, particularly the Hospital, which is about to be significantly redeveloped, but is an absolute pig to get to. Both times I’ve had to get there in a hurry have, fortunately, been late at night (and out of the football season)
matt_world2004
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The problem is the combined population of pinner and Northwood (locations that are north and west of harrow on the hill) is about 55000-60000 this prices the extension at about £4000 a resident of these areas . And not every resident in those areas would use the service regularly to justify that cost.
The extension would open access to the area far more to those who live in Pinner & Northwood.
It also ignores the fact that a railway service is not only exclusively for those living in an area.
ChiefPlanner
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The hospital is likely to remain on the site , and to be further developed. Further increasing the road traffic. Access from the east - St Albans in particular is a nightmare. Watford having of course sold its soul to the road culture over the last 30 years. Normal journey times can be an hour, more in the peaks and disruption. The rail link does not make a case solely on the medical access , but it is relevant.
matt_world2004
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The argument is should a London Mayoral candidate be campaigning to build a rail extension that runs completely outside their jurisdiction and provides almost no benefits for those that reside within his jurisdiction
philthetube
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also for people travelling to Watford shopping High St, station is much more convenient that the Junction.
As an ex Pinner resident I totally disagree. Many people in that area of north west London, all the way south towards Wembley and Uxbridge use Watford as their local centre. Its a major employment centre as well as shopping and the hospital. Road traffic is terrible as cars are the main local travel mode. The MLX would have made accessing Watford a lot easier by public transport. Whether it was still a good idea once the ridiculous costs came to light is a different matter, but 'almost no benefits' is nonsense.
That doesn't take away from the fact that Mr Bailey's statements are odd to say the least
matt_world2004
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Would it have made accessing Watford much easier from Wembley when Wembley central station is a quicker link to Watford. ? Even Uxbridge it was quicker changing at harrow on the hill for bus services to wealdstone for London midland services.
I’m sure you very well know that buses don’t attract anywhere near the same modal shift as rail based transport services.
ChiefPlanner
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Any one with any sense would get the Met from Uxbridge to Northwick Park for a short walk to either Kenton or South Kenton on the DC line. Forget the bus from Harrow on the Hill to Weadstone.
Another benefit of the link - would of course tap "Metroland" into the Junction for connection into a range of longer distance services on the WCML , - just to Birmingham on Avanti at the moment , but more post HS2. Extremely useful potentially were the WCML disrupted for any reason (but we do not quantify emergency etc diversions) , - rarely , but it has happened when you lose both the main line and the DC line.
Watford as a shopping centre could do with all the help it can get at the moment. Fallen on quite hard times with the flagshop John Lewis store gone , and the well established Clements department store going. Not that the link is going to materially help that in the short term. (or the medium term)
I was talking about the sphere of influence of Watford, not just the MLX
How attractive do you think a journey with a bus in the middle would be, compared to driving? A single change at HotH would be massively more attractive as an option.
matt_world2004
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That isn't the responsibility of the mayor of London.
It does highlight the anomaly that, maybe, Watford should be part of London.
matt_world2004
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More that the DfT should find the majority of the project and strengthen the business case for the project by running Chiltern services from the Amersham direction to Watford
philthetube
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good point, and it is a shovel ready project, but still can't see it happening though.
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