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Bexleyheath line closures: how’s everyone doing?

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NorthKent1989

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Not seen a thread about the Bexleyheath line closures and wanted to see everyone’s experiences in the surrounding areas?
 
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hkstudent

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Not seen a thread about the Bexleyheath line closures and wanted to see everyone’s experiences in the surrounding areas?
Rail Replacement Bus is not running really well as many of them depart ahead of the scheule, particular for Lewisham - Slade Green / Dartford route and Welling - Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood route.
The routing from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood is really circuitous and worse than ordinary all-stopping local buses as it goes though Plumstead Corner (+7 minutes in running for a 7 minutes journey) rather than through New Road.
It is fun to see a lot of different buses running on replacement services, which worth loads of photoshots.
Lucky that North Kent Line / Sidcup Line are not running badly.
 

NorthKent1989

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Rail Replacement Bus is not running really well as many of them depart ahead of the scheule, particular for Lewisham - Slade Green / Dartford route and Welling - Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood route.
The routing from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood is really circuitous and worse than ordinary all-stopping local buses as it goes though Plumstead Corner (+7 minutes in running for a 7 minutes journey) rather than through New Road.
It is fun to see a lot of different buses running on replacement services, which worth loads of photoshots.
Lucky that North Kent Line / Sidcup Line are not running badly.

One of my friends who live along the Bexleyheath route has given up on the replacement buses and has gotten the 89 bus from Lewisham to Welling.

Has been interesting seeing peak time Dartford to Victoria trains along the Woolwich line run semi fast skipping the busy Charlton.
 

NorthKent1989

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It’s actually funny to see that the AM peak hour service via Woolwich isn’t any faster the one via Sidcup, you’re only saving 2 mins if travelling from Dartford.

The replacement buses do look rather circuitous, there should be a bus from Barnehurst to Erith, Welling/Bexleyheath to Belvedere, Then a faster replacement bus from Falconwood to Lewisham, are local buses taking rail tickets?
 

ScotGG

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The old semi fasts skipped Charlton until about 15 years ago I believe.

Some TfL drivers have not got the memo about acceptance of rail tickets. People are supposed to be able to use London buses in addition to rail replacement buses.

A bit surprised there aren't more staff at rail replacement bus stops to help and some stations.
 

John Webb

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As a former resident of that area, what are they doing to the Bexleyheath line that's closed it, please?
 

John Webb

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Thanks for the prompt response. I assume when NR say "...The walls are made from steel beams, which are vibrated and driven into the ground..." they are talking about interlocking sheet piling? Never heard them described as 'steel beams' before!

Interestingly the Middleton Press book "Lewisham to Dartford", which covers both the Sidcup line (opened in 1866) and the Bexley Heath* line (opened 1893) says of the latter that it only opened "Following problems with unstable clay cuttings and embankments...." so obviously there have been difficulties since its inception!
(*Officially spelt as 'Bexleyheath' from 1894 onwards)
 
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357 LTSRail

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John Webb

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Not quite sheet piling, they are doing something that I've personally not seen before, but is pretty much what they describe. See: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQ_y3oQXUAAeBZg?format=jpg&name=large
I see what you (and NR) mean. A bit like the slotted concrete posts used for supporting fencing panels but on a different scale. I wonder if it's being done that way to allow drainage of water which steel sheet piling might not allow? Or possibly it's stronger and quicker to install, needing less piling than the sheets? Intriguing!

I wonder if this is the same location as seen in July last year (click on photo to go to the original large one on the Geograph website):
Railway line near Bexleyheath

© Copyright Malc McDonald and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
 
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357 LTSRail

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I wonder if this is the same location as seen in July last year

I believe it is yes - near Barnehurst.

I'm not quite sure why they're using their method either, my guess is it saves time with less to pile drive given their going to want to minimise disruption. I suppose it's also visually less disruptive than sheet metal too but again, I can only speculate.
 

hkstudent

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One of my friends who live along the Bexleyheath route has given up on the replacement buses and has gotten the 89 bus from Lewisham to Welling.

Has been interesting seeing peak time Dartford to Victoria trains along the Woolwich line run semi fast skipping the busy Charlton.
To be honest, it would be best for him to take 51 or 96 to Plumstead or Woolwich as there are more frequent trains and have seats be available. Shooters Hill and Blackheath area is not really reliable during peak hours.

It’s actually funny to see that the AM peak hour service via Woolwich isn’t any faster the one via Sidcup, you’re only saving 2 mins if travelling from Dartford.

The replacement buses do look rather circuitous, there should be a bus from Barnehurst to Erith, Welling/Bexleyheath to Belvedere, Then a faster replacement bus from Falconwood to Lewisham, are local buses taking rail tickets?
Yeah, all London buses between Lewisham and Dartford, to take you to alternative line stations (Sidcup / North Kent Line)

It's actually shorter to run Barnehurst to Slade Green than Barnehurst to Erith. Need not to mention that there are no bus stops near Erith Station. The aim for those special rail replacement buses are to take passengers to nearest alternative line stations to continue the journeys.
But I have to admit, the Welling / Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood Route is really circuitous.

Thanks for the prompt response. I assume when NR say "...The walls are made from steel beams, which are vibrated and driven into the ground..." they are talking about interlocking sheet piling? Never heard them described as 'steel beams' before!

Interestingly the Middleton Press book "Lewisham to Dartford", which covers both the Sidcup line (opened in 1866) and the Bexley Heath* line (opened 1893) says of the latter that it only opened "Following problems with unstable clay cuttings and embankments...." so obviously there have been difficulties since its inception!
(*Officially spelt as 'Bexleyheath' from 1894 onwards)
The cutting from Bexleyheath - Slade Green is quite deep so it has been vunlerable since it was built. This is where the landslip happened last year (Bursted Wood near Barnehurst Station)
stream_img.jpg
 
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Horizon22

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Interested to see how many are taking the cross line buses? Eltham - Mottingham/new Eltham & Welling to Abbey Wood.
 

DynamicSpirit

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The routing from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood is really circuitous and worse than ordinary all-stopping local buses as it goes though Plumstead Corner (+7 minutes in running for a 7 minutes journey) rather than through New Road.

I'm assuming you mean it heads down Bostall Hill and turns right at the first set of traffic lights, into Basildon Road, right? As I can't see any reason why it would head on towards Plumstead Corner?

Just guessing here, but is it possible it's taking that route to Abbey Wood and then returning via New Road? That would mean the bus wouldn't have turn around at Abbey Wood - which would save some awkwardness.
 

NorthKent1989

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To be honest, it would be best for him to take 51 or 96 to Plumstead or Woolwich as there are more frequent trains and have seats be available. Shooters Hill and Blackheath area is not really reliable during peak hours.


Yeah, all London buses between Lewisham and Dartford, to take you to alternative line stations (Sidcup / North Kent Line)

It's actually shorter to run Barnehurst to Slade Green than Barnehurst to Erith. Need not to mention that there are no bus stops near Erith Station. The aim for those special rail replacement buses are to take passengers to nearest alternative line stations to continue the journeys.
But I have to admit, the Welling / Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood Route is really circuitous.


The cutting from Bexleyheath - Slade Green is quite deep so it has been vunlerable since it was built. This is where the landslip happened last year (Bursted Wood near Barnehurst Station)
stream_img.jpg

Thank you for the suggestion but my friend works in Lewisham Hospital in any case so the 89 is the only bus good for him, the 96 is a good route but may get caught up in some traffic along Plumstead High Street, the 51 is slightly quicker to Woolwich so that would be a good alternative.
 

NorthKent1989

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The old semi fasts skipped Charlton until about 15 years ago I believe.

Some TfL drivers have not got the memo about acceptance of rail tickets. People are supposed to be able to use London buses in addition to rail replacement buses.

A bit surprised there aren't more staff at rail replacement bus stops to help and some stations.

I have seen the 132 & 335 buses look very packed and busy lately, some people in Eltham and Kidbrooke must obviously be heading to North Greenwich as an alternative instead, so maybe that those drivers have got the memo thankfully

Charlton was added as a stop in the early 1990s I recall, but I’m sure in the peak time saw trains skip Charlton still until the early 2000s
 

hkstudent

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Thanks for the prompt response. I assume when NR say "...The walls are made from steel beams, which are vibrated and driven into the ground..." they are talking about interlocking sheet piling? Never heard them described as 'steel beams' before!

Interestingly the Middleton Press book "Lewisham to Dartford", which covers both the Sidcup line (opened in 1866) and the Bexley Heath* line (opened 1893) says of the latter that it only opened "Following problems with unstable clay cuttings and embankments...." so obviously there have been difficulties since its inception!
(*Officially spelt as 'Bexleyheath' from 1894 onwards)
I have seen the 132 & 335 buses look very packed and busy lately, some people in Eltham and Kidbrooke must obviously be heading to North Greenwich as an alternative instead, so maybe that those drivers have got the memo thankfully

Charlton was added as a stop in the early 1990s I recall, but I’m sure in the peak time saw trains skip Charlton still until the early 2000s
Look at p.34-35 of TfL's strategic case for metrorisation in SE, it mentioned about 132 + Jubilee Line is more attractive for those who are not living near the station.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/strategic-case-for-metroisation.pdf
 

brad465

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It’s actually funny to see that the AM peak hour service via Woolwich isn’t any faster the one via Sidcup, you’re only saving 2 mins if travelling from Dartford.
That might be down to the lack of speed restrictions on the Sidcup line. Only Hither Green and Parks Bridge jct/Lewisham are distinctly below the 60mph speed limit, while the NK route as you probably know has the large Woolwich section, then via Greenwich I've lost count of the many there, or Charlton - Blackheath and Lewisham again.
 

NorthKent1989

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That might be down to the lack of speed restrictions on the Sidcup line. Only Hither Green and Parks Bridge jct/Lewisham are distinctly below the 60mph speed limit, while the NK route as you probably know has the large Woolwich section, then via Greenwich I've lost count of the many there, or Charlton - Blackheath and Lewisham again.

True, Lewisham Junction alone would definitely slow down the service, even if it made up time between Slade Green and Blackheath with the limited stops.
 

RJ

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Rail Replacement Bus is not running really well as many of them depart ahead of the scheule, particular for Lewisham - Slade Green / Dartford route and Welling - Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood route.
The routing from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood is really circuitous and worse than ordinary all-stopping local buses as it goes though Plumstead Corner (+7 minutes in running for a 7 minutes journey) rather than through New Road.
It is fun to see a lot of different buses running on replacement services, which worth loads of photoshots.
Lucky that North Kent Line / Sidcup Line are not running badly.

I know the Lewisham to Dartford that was running over the weekend route very well, it's local to me. The running times could do with some adjustment.

Lewisham - Blackheath - 2 minutes excess
Blackheath - Kidbrooke - 1 minute excess
Kidbrooke - Eltham - 3 minutes excess
Eltham - Falconwood - 1 minute short
Falconwood - Welling - 3 minutes excess
Welling - Bexleyheath - 5 minutes excess
Bexleyheath - Dartford - just right

Dartford - Barnehurst - just right
Barnehurst - Bexleyheath - 1 minute short
Bexleyheath - Welling - 4 minutes excess
Welling - Falconwood - 3 minutes excess
Falconwood - Lewisham - just right

Some of the drivers on the route are top experienced people who will wait correct departure time - I witnessed a few waiting time at Bexleyheath with hazards on. Some will drive with no regard to scheduled time after leaving the first stop.

Local people avoid this service like the plague. It's circuitous and the running times are excessive, not that this makes it reliable for reasons explained above. The 89 follows a straight line of route Blackheath - Welling and Welling - Barnehurst. It stops in the part of Bexleyheath more people want to go to. Locals on the bus often want to escape onto an 89 but it has low frequencies at certain times of the day and week. People travelling to/from Eltham and Falconwood rely on the service rail replacement service.

Kidbrooke is an issue. Southeastern is advising people on Twitter and on posters by the station to use stops L and M on Kidbrooke Park Road. National Rail Enquires tells people to use stops A and B on Henley Cross. The rail replacement drivers are instructed to stop outside the station in Henley Cross (where some locals are still picking up the bus) and have not been notified that passengers may be waiting on Kidbrooke Park Road.

As for the midweek arrangements, I haven't checked them out. Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood could follow the 301 then go up and down Knee Hill, which is passable with care and caution. If not then New Road which is cleared for double deck buses is a much, much better alternative to going via Plumstead Corner.
 
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RJ

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I'm assuming you mean it heads down Bostall Hill and turns right at the first set of traffic lights, into Basildon Road, right? As I can't see any reason why it would head on towards Plumstead Corner?

Just guessing here, but is it possible it's taking that route to Abbey Wood and then returning via New Road? That would mean the bus wouldn't have turn around at Abbey Wood - which would save some awkwardness.

There are roundabouts in close proximity either side of the Abbey Wood stops - not too much of an issue having to turn there.

There is a problem at Abbey Wood with confusion over whether the replacement buses stop on Knee Hill or Harrow Manorway. Some passengers still wait on Knee Hill, passengers often wait on the wrong side of the road on Harrow Manorway and some drivers totally bypass the designated stops on Harrow Manorway. Drivers who are aware of this make three stops at Abbey Wood to ensure everyone is picked up.
 

Andrew S

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I've enjoyed having more direct Abbey Wood - Charing Cross trains. Shame it's only for a week.
 

hkstudent

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I know the Lewisham to Dartford that was running over the weekend route very well, it's local to me. The running times could do with some adjustment.

Lewisham - Blackheath - 2 minutes excess
Blackheath - Kidbrooke - 1 minute excess
Kidbrooke - Eltham - 3 minutes excess
Eltham - Falconwood - 1 minute short
Falconwood - Welling - 3 minutes excess
Welling - Bexleyheath - 5 minutes excess
Bexleyheath - Dartford - just right

Dartford - Barnehurst - just right
Barnehurst - Bexleyheath - 1 minute short
Bexleyheath - Welling - 4 minutes excess
Welling - Falconwood - 3 minutes excess
Falconwood - Lewisham - just right

Some of the drivers on the route are top experienced people who will wait correct departure time - I witnessed a few waiting time at Bexleyheath with hazards on. Some will drive with no regard to scheduled time after leaving the first stop.

Local people avoid this service like the plague. It's circuitous and the running times are excessive, not that this makes it reliable for reasons explained above. The 89 follows a straight line of route Blackheath - Welling and Welling - Barnehurst. It stops in the part of Bexleyheath more people want to go to. Locals on the bus often want to escape onto an 89 but it has low frequencies at certain times of the day and week. People travelling to/from Eltham and Falconwood rely on the service rail replacement service.

Kidbrooke is an issue. Southeastern is advising people on Twitter and on posters by the station to use stops L and M on Kidbrooke Park Road. National Rail Enquires tells people to use stops A and B on Henley Cross. The rail replacement drivers are instructed to stop outside the station in Henley Cross (where some locals are still picking up the bus) and have not been notified that passengers may be waiting on Kidbrooke Park Road.

As for the midweek arrangements, I haven't checked them out. Bexleyheath - Abbey Wood could follow the 301 then go up and down Knee Hill, which is passable with care and caution. If not then New Road which is cleared for double deck buses is a much, much better alternative to going via Plumstead Corner.
New Road is cleared for double decker as 301 is running in double deckers on New Road.
But, there are no buses running on Knee Hill the more direct route at the moment, possibly due to the tree height, steep gradient and also narrow width of road

I've enjoyed having more direct Abbey Wood - Charing Cross trains. Shame it's only for a week.
There are 2 trains per hour in normal days to run between Abbey Wood and Charing Cross via Blackheath Tunnel

There are roundabouts in close proximity either side of the Abbey Wood stops - not too much of an issue having to turn there.

There is a problem at Abbey Wood with confusion over whether the replacement buses stop on Knee Hill or Harrow Manorway. Some passengers still wait on Knee Hill, passengers often wait on the wrong side of the road on Harrow Manorway and some drivers totally bypass the designated stops on Harrow Manorway. Drivers who are aware of this make three stops at Abbey Wood to ensure everyone is picked up.
Do you think Southeastern is aware of the issue, at least on Twitter?

I've enjoyed having more direct Abbey Wood - Charing Cross trains. Shame it's only for a week.
I'm assuming you mean it heads down Bostall Hill and turns right at the first set of traffic lights, into Basildon Road, right? As I can't see any reason why it would head on towards Plumstead Corner?

Just guessing here, but is it possible it's taking that route to Abbey Wood and then returning via New Road? That would mean the bus wouldn't have turn around at Abbey Wood - which would save some awkwardness.
Yeah, Wickham Lane turn right to Plumstead High Street at the Plumstead Corner Roundabout. Really ackward to see such a route: https://www.google.com.hk/maps/dir/...fe7a67db6b:0x7d5ba62f4770d674!1m0!1m0!1m0!3e0
 
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Andrew S

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There are 2 trains per hour in normal days to run between Abbey Wood and Charing Cross via Blackheath Tunnel

I know, I use them regularly. I mean that it's good this week to have more to choose from, including some which skip a few stops on the way. Admittedly the time saving is minimal though.
 

NorthKent1989

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I know, I use them regularly. I mean that it's good this week to have more to choose from, including some which skip a few stops on the way. Admittedly the time saving is minimal though.

Only because of the signalling, with all the extra trains they can’t have the skip stop trains go super fast through stations unfortunately
 

DynamicSpirit

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There are roundabouts in close proximity either side of the Abbey Wood stops - not too much of an issue having to turn there.

There is a problem at Abbey Wood with confusion over whether the replacement buses stop on Knee Hill or Harrow Manorway. Some passengers still wait on Knee Hill, passengers often wait on the wrong side of the road on Harrow Manorway and some drivers totally bypass the designated stops on Harrow Manorway. Drivers who are aware of this make three stops at Abbey Wood to ensure everyone is picked up.

Ah, OK, I didn't realise they were stopping on Harrow Manorway. That sounds much more convenient than the usual Abbey Wood rail replacement stop (at least for people who know where the buses are stopping). And I agree, stopping there and using the roundabouts that solves the problem of turning the buses round.

New Road is cleared for double decker as 301 is running in double deckers on New Road.
But, there are no buses running on Knee Hill the more direct route at the moment, possibly due to the tree height, steep gradient and also narrow width of road

I'm pretty sure that Knee Hill would be unsuitable for buses for all the reasons you mention. Although, interestingly, the 301 was originally proposed to run via Knee Hill - that got changed to New Road at the public consultation stage (link) - in response to pretty much those same objections being raised. I can only assume someone at TfL must have looked at Knee Hill on a map without without any knowledge of what the road is actually like.

Yeah, Wickham Lane turn right to Plumstead High Street at the Plumstead Corner Roundabout. Really ackward to see such a route: https://www.google.com.hk/maps/dir/...fe7a67db6b:0x7d5ba62f4770d674!1m0!1m0!1m0!3e0

Oh blimey, that seems a totally absurd route! Not only is it longer than necessary, but it heads right into the regular traffic queues along Wickham Lane that the direct route would have avoided. I am baffled as to why they picked that route.
 

hkstudent

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Ah, OK, I didn't realise they were stopping on Harrow Manorway. That sounds much more convenient than the usual Abbey Wood rail replacement stop (at least for people who know where the buses are stopping). And I agree, stopping there and using the roundabouts that solves the problem of turning the buses round.



I'm pretty sure that Knee Hill would be unsuitable for buses for all the reasons you mention. Although, interestingly, the 301 was originally proposed to run via Knee Hill - that got changed to New Road at the public consultation stage (link) - in response to pretty much those same objections being raised. I can only assume someone at TfL must have looked at Knee Hill on a map without without any knowledge of what the road is actually like.



Oh blimey, that seems a totally absurd route! Not only is it longer than necessary, but it heads right into the regular traffic queues along Wickham Lane that the direct route would have avoided. I am baffled as to why they picked that route.
There was a road test on Knee Hill by TfL and failed, and that's it.

The whole Abbey Wood - BXH - WLI route failed last evening due to congestion at Plumstead and Welling.
 

telstarbox

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Advance publicity for these works has been very comprehensive. Since Christmas I've seen leaflets at SE stations, digital street adverts, banner adverts on here and a promoted Instagram page (presumably geo-targeted?) all warning of the half-term closure.
 

hkstudent

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Advance publicity for these works has been very comprehensive. Since Christmas I've seen leaflets at SE stations, digital street adverts, banner adverts on here and a promoted Instagram page (presumably geo-targeted?) all warning of the half-term closure.
Indeed, Network Rail did a good job in publicity work this time.
Mind you, Hither Green area will be closed during the Easter holiday, causing the closure of Grove Park Line and Sidcup Line.
 
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