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Why is the French name for Brussel-Zuid not Bruxelles-Sud?
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Chris Butler
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More generally 'midi' means 'midday', but also 'south', especially 'south of France'.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Another example is that the Canal du Midi is the southern canal in France.
One of the hilarious mis-translations when the Eurostar service was announced in 1994 was the British press statement that "all the trains will arrive in Brussels at mid-day".
They took the other meaning of Midi...
And yet down the road from Brussels, still on the same state railway, the main station is firmly Charleroi Sud.
One of the hilarious mis-translations when the Eurostar service was announced in 1994 was the British press statement that "all the trains will arrive in Brussels at mid-day".
They took the other meaning of Midi...
And yet down the road from Brussels, still on the same state railway, the main station is firmly Charleroi Sud.
Chris Butler
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Subtle, but different meaning. Gare du Midi has the connotation of "Gateway to the South", whereas Chareroi Sud has the connotation of the station in the south of Charleroi (as opposed to Charleroi Ouest in the west).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
"Gare du X" in French generally means "the station serving X", as you say (e.g. "Gare du Lyon" is called that because it serves Lyon). There are sort-of UK examples - Wigan North Western is pretty much south south east of Wigan Wallgate, and instead refers to the name of the railway that served it. Or it's similar to "X Road" in the UK which tends to derive from "the road from here to X".
duesselmartin
Established Member
I think this answers it really.
Part of the explanation is that Bruxelles Midi is the station you use to go to the South, not simply (as Charleroi) the station IN the south of the city. Paris has Nord and Est next to each other (and Lyon) - Berlin and Vienna used to have several stations named after destinations too.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
What are we to make of the new Tours-Bordeaux LGV?
It is variously named
LGV Sud Europe Atlantique
LGV Sud-Ouest
LGV L'Océane
Note Sud not Midi!
I think Montparnasse station has "Gare de L'Océane" or similar on its façade.
The French do like flowery descriptions.
We have to make do with "HS2".
It is variously named
LGV Sud Europe Atlantique
LGV Sud-Ouest
LGV L'Océane
Note Sud not Midi!
I think Montparnasse station has "Gare de L'Océane" or similar on its façade.
The French do like flowery descriptions.
We have to make do with "HS2".
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The French like putting silly brand names on everything, to be honest. I'm not sure if I like it or find it grossly annoying. Orange (mobile phones) were the best/worst at it, with their various contracts not being named after a feature of them which you might find attractive (e.g. Saver, Business, Frequent Caller or somesuch), but rather after animals, which basically told you nothing about them.
HS2? Maybe it could be called "High Speed North" or something, I suppose. I reckon were we French it'd probably be the LGV-Nord.
SHD
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Similarly, mezzogiorno in Italian is also used to refer to the southern part of the country. (The explanation is obvious by looking at a sundial).
Note that there are no direct trains from Gare d'Austerlitz to Slavkov, though! And for the sake of precision, it's Gare de Lyon. "Du" actually stands for of "de le" or "de la". However, the word Lyon - an odonym - is a proper noun, so there is generally no purpose in using the definite article "le" before it, except in very specific cases (e.g. Le Lyon de mon enfance = The Lyon of my childhood).
Other examples of French stations with interesting naming conventions are the suburban stations near Paris names "XXX Rive Gauche" or "XXX Rive Droite", because they are located on railway lines terminating on (resp.) the Left bank (Invalides, Montparnasse) /the Right bank (Saint Lazare) of the Seine.
Are you really not sure?
SHD
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Note that "Midi" in French railway parlance also refers to the former Compagnie du Midi, one of the 6 major railway companies at the beginning of the XXth century, the only company without a line to Paris, and a pioneer of railway electrification in France. For example, caténaire Midi (Midi-style OHLE) is still used on several lines in Southwestern France.
Montparnasse's main gate is called "Porte Océane".
For flowery descriptions, nothing beats the names of former TEEs and major trains: L'Etendard (Paris-Bordeaux, "the standard", in the heraldic meaning of the word, once the train with the fastest average speed in Europe), Le Mistral (Paris-Nice, named after the strong wind blowing through the Rhône valley, which the northbound train had to fight quite strong), L'Armor (Paris-Brest, Breton for "the land by the sea") and Le Goéland (same route, "the seagull"), La Marée (Paris-Dieppe, "the tide" but also "the catch of the day"), L'Etoile du Nord (Paris-Amsterdam, "the North star"), etc.
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Struner
Member
High Speed North? People in Newcastle will be impressed. & as for North Britain....
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Surely "de le" becomes "du", but "de la" is "de la".
blackpoolwelsh
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The reason why it’s called Brusell Zuid is that in Belgium there are three official languages, French, Dutch and German and Zuid is the Dutch word for South
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's not that that we were questioning, it was more why the French isn't the French translation of that i.e. "Bruxelles Sud".
TheSeeker
Member
The area around the station was called Midi before the railways were built. As above, the position of the sun at 12 noon.
I've been told Bruxelles Midi station has the highest crime rate on the Belgian network but the area itself already had very high crime before the station was built. What you get for buying up cheap land and knocking down the slums
I've been told Bruxelles Midi station has the highest crime rate on the Belgian network but the area itself already had very high crime before the station was built. What you get for buying up cheap land and knocking down the slums
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've been told Bruxelles Midi station has the highest crime rate on the Belgian network but the area itself already had very high crime before the station was built. What you get for buying up cheap land and knocking down the slums
There are plenty of "slums" still there, it is an utterly horrible area, I've walked there and it really felt unsafe. It would be like putting Manchester Piccadilly in the middle of Beswick or something.
BahrainLad
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Brussels Gare de Paris?
Bletchleyite
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I'd go with "Gare du Trou de la Merde" if you want to take the local area into account. It really is a dump.
paddington
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The English translation of this sense of "midi" is "meridional", an archaic word for south.
ptreanor
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This is my understanding. Midi equates to south, that is where the sun appears in the sky at midday. Simples!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
There's a Hotel Mediodia across the road from the old Atocha station in Madrid. This was originally the station for going south so may be a similar derivation.
Having lived in Brussels (and thoroughly enjoyed it) for 7 years I could say this is a bit hrash and also a bit fair!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Oh, I like Brussels, it's definitely my favoured one of the two main Eurostar destinations - just not that bit!
SHD
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Whoops, obviously you’re right. I don’t know what went through my head while writing.
As for south being referred to as “mid-day” - it is also the case in Polish (Południe). Interestingly północ (midnight) also has the meaning of “north”!
By contrast I went to a Pizza Restaurant here:
Pizzeria Le milano
Rue du Fort 3, 1060 Saint-Gilles, Belgium
+32 487 38 83 13
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qLcRcWzNckAxPwme7
and didn't find it hostile or threatening at all walking up there from the Eurostar (around 1930, dark). I would not expect to be able to order in English, mind.
That said, there's shockingly little to recommend Hotel Stalingrad.
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johnnychips
Established Member
I think people are knocking it too much. The new bars across from the north entrance are nice; if you leave by the south (or ‘midi’ ) direction there are some good traditional bars towards the left; and there is a great market nearby on Sunday morning.
dutchflyer
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The current lest best area in the 19-council so closely coöperating agglo of BRUssel/xelles are by now quite far from south/midi. A large part in the Midi area is now just offices etc.
In MOCKBA (aka Moscow) which also has loads of dead-end terminal stations, nearly all are named after the main city or area they serve. Kursky, Kazansky, Byelorussky, etc.
The Chinese also have a knack for naming anyhting after the 4 winds (nan=south, bei=north, dong=east, shi=west).
In MOCKBA (aka Moscow) which also has loads of dead-end terminal stations, nearly all are named after the main city or area they serve. Kursky, Kazansky, Byelorussky, etc.
The Chinese also have a knack for naming anyhting after the 4 winds (nan=south, bei=north, dong=east, shi=west).
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