• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Staff travel. First Class on STD class Priv

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
11 Nov 2017
Messages
33
He asked for 1st price with his disabled railcard as the train was full and standing and he needed a seat due to his disability!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
He asked for 1st price with his disabled railcard as the train was full and standing and he needed a seat due to his disability!

He’s quoted the correct procedure.

The problem with selling someone what is effectively an invalid ticket is it could get picked up by someone else as an irregularity.

In that situation it would be better to either sell the standard class PRIV ticket and use discretion to allow the person to use first on the train, or else simply sell the railcard discounted rate.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
From the situation described the passenger had a Priv card which allows 75% on walk up tickets for standard class only. Therefore this discount could not be applied to first class tickets. However, they had a disabled person's railcard which does allow discounts on first class travel. A third off. Therefore they were entitled to the latter applied to the first class fare.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,877
I sold it to him and got into trouble from my managers, but I disagreed as I think if he’s registered disabled he should be allowed to use the disabled railcard with his priv...any thoughts?
You sold a ticket with a discount which he wasn't entitled to and got into trouble as a result.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,880
Location
Lancashire
Is it allowed to pay th3 weekend first upgrade on Avanti when using a Priv dated box?
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
He asked for 1st price with his disabled railcard as the train was full and standing and he needed a seat due to his disability!

So the choices would be; standard class ticket with PRIV, or a first class ticket with the disabled railcard.

If the train was full and standing and a seat couldn't be found, I suppose the next step might be to upgrade the person to first class for free.

I can't see how you could apply two discounts to a single transaction. Is there a way to sell a ticket with a manually entered amount (which I assume you now have to work out by yourself)? If so, I can see why someone might get into trouble.
 

Merseysider

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
22 Jan 2014
Messages
5,389
Location
Birmingham
I can't see how you could apply two discounts to a single transaction. Is there a way to sell a ticket with a manually entered amount (which I assume you now have to work out by yourself)? If so, I can see why someone might get into trouble.
The way I read it, the passenger had a Standard Priv and was sold a 1st Priv ticket? It’s not exactly clear, though.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,543
Lesson in life - don't do anything with your ticket machine that you wouldn't want to be audited by someone potentially less understanding than a basic level traincrew manager.

Where I am as guards we get far more leeway with bending rules than revenue protection inspectors might (by which I mean bending - choosing to sell a discounted ticket from a station with purchasing facilities for example) but there is bending and smashing - selling dodgy priv tickets is smashing them.
 

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,749
He’s quoted the correct procedure.

The problem with selling someone what is effectively an invalid ticket is it could get picked up by someone else as an irregularity.

In that situation it would be better to either sell the standard class PRIV ticket and use discretion to allow the person to use first on the train, or else simply sell the railcard discounted rate.

Could it be sold and endorsed?

Do agree that discretion on the train is a better option though.
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
It could be, but it isn't clear to me how someone in a ticket office would know that a seat will not be found on the train.

Trains can be announced as "full and standing" on PIS displays and in announcements; and that was the phrase used by the poster.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,877
Trains can be announced as "full and standing" on PIS displays and in announcements; and that was the phrase used by the poster.
I appreciate that but, from experience, it doesn't always mean that they are. On the other hand it does nothing to guarantee availability of seats in first class either - that may also be full, whether it has been declassified or not. Endorsing the ticket does not guarantee a seat.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
A train advertised as full and standing will probably be declassified and first will be full and standing too.
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
Are any staff entitled to first class PRIV, such as Management? If so, how would the powers that be know that the OP sold the wrong ticket.
 

142blue

On Moderation
Joined
30 Jul 2013
Messages
261
Location
UK
If he's on a priv discounted ticket he should not be taking a seat if passengers are standing.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,543
If he's on a priv discounted ticket he should not be taking a seat if passengers are standing.

Not correct. If using free travel facilities then that is the case unless your card is marked retired.

If however you pay for a discounted ticket then you're entitled to take a seat.
 

janb

Member
Joined
16 Jul 2008
Messages
669
Not correct. If using free travel facilities then that is the case unless your card is marked retired.

If however you pay for a discounted ticket then you're entitled to take a seat.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/conditions-of-issue-and-use.html
RST said:
3. The use of the words "rail staff travel facilities" and "rail staff travel facility" refers in each case to any card, pass, coupon, season ticket document, voucher, letter or other document that provides free or reduced rate travel for the primary cardholder and their eligible family members.
...
16. When travelling using rail staff travel facilities, priority should be given to public fare paying passengers. Whenever possible, cardholders should travel on lightly loaded trains. If a train is crowded, cardholders should allow public fare paying passengers to take seats. If eligible for and travelling in 1st Class on former Inter-City services, cardholders may be asked by on board staff to vacate their seat for a public fare paying passenger and they are expected to do so. However, if the cardholder is a retired employee or widow(er) (or their eligible family members), then they should not be asked to surrender their seat in these circumstances.

I certainly don't take a seat on busy trains.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top