Dog on seat.

londonbridge · 19 Feb 2020

Got on the (Tfl) bus home after work last night and saw a large bulldog sitting ON the seat next to its owner, on the lower deck. I remember the Tfl rules on dogs on buses went roughly as follows:

Dogs travel free. They are carried at the discretion of the driver or conductor but are not allowed on seats. On double deck buses they usually travel upstairs but in special circumstances the driver or conductor may allow a small dog to be carried downstairs. They must be kept under control at all times.

No argument from me that the dog wasn't under control as it was just sitting there and actually looked quite placid, I'm just more annoyed by the fact that the driver either chose to ignore, or was oblivious to, the fact that the dog was on a seat, plus it was by no means a small dog so it shouldn't have been downstairs. I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry to sit on that particular seat on that particular bus for quite a while. So are all dogs allowed a) downstairs and b) on seats now then??

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computerSaysNo · 19 Feb 2020

londonbridge said:
I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry to sit on that particular seat on that particular bus for quite a while.

I was on a Lothian bus in Edinburgh a few weeks ago and there was a dog sitting on a seat downstairs, and I thought the same thing. I've never heard the rule that dogs should travel upstairs on a double-deck bus, does it make a difference where the dog is?

Saperstein · 19 Feb 2020

Never heard of that rule either.

If it was a very large dog it might not be able to actually get upstairs to the upper saloon.

I remember it was once permitted to smoke upstairs but gone are those days by at least 25 years, or more, anyone know?

Saperstein

Darandio · 19 Feb 2020

Never heard of it either, seems unlikely to me. The conditions do state....

You can take an assistance dog on our bus and Underground services. You can also take any other dog or inoffensive animal on our bus and Underground services, unless there is a good reason for us to refuse it (such as if the animal seems dangerous). You must keep it under control on a lead or in a suitable container, and must not allow it on a seat. Staff are not allowed to take charge of any animal.

Jordan Adam · 19 Feb 2020

I don't see that being a huge issue, especially given how many people put their feet up on seats etc. Surely it's better than the dog lying down and blocking the isle, not to mention the bus floors can often be filthy... The logic that dogs must be taken upstairs is flawed too given that it's arguably more unsafe as many dogs don't like stairs (never mind in a moving vehicle).

It also reminds me of the First/Stagecoach policy that a child under 5 can travel free so long as they don't occupy a seat. If a bus is half empty i highly doubt a driver is going to get out the cab and tell the child to sit on their parents lap or stand. Fact of the matter is that while it may be company policy on paper, in reality few drivers will enforce it and most inspectors wouldn't either as it's totally irrational.

Geordie driver · 19 Feb 2020

Having owned a bulldog in the past I dread to think what it would be like to get it upstairs on the bus.

Are you sure it's wasn't a particularly ugly child?

We had loads of weird rules back in the day, especially about whippets, large number of miners used to travel early on a Sunday to race their whippets, I think it was 4 upstairs and 3 down. These rules were ignored entirely provided the passengers didn't expect a ticket.

We once had a driver bring his own dog ( German Shepherd) to work and tie it up at the back upstairs, it bit someone. Didn't even get the sack, there was no rule to cover such stupidity.

Busaholic · 19 Feb 2020

I don't believe there's ever been a rule about taking dogs upstairs on London buses, at least. In fact, if there had been a rule I'd have thought it would have been the exact opposite i.e. dogs should remain downstairs. It's far more logical.

rich.davies · 19 Feb 2020

During the odd occasion i take my small dog on the bus, i usually let her sit on my knee so she can look at the window as it seems to calm her down. She hates lying/sitting down on the floor of the bus and gets worked up because of the enclosed space.

Never had any complaints about it either.

londonbridge · 19 Feb 2020

Busaholic said:
I don't believe there's ever been a rule about taking dogs upstairs on London buses, at least. In fact, if there had been a rule I'd have thought it would have been the exact opposite i.e. dogs should remain downstairs. It's far more logical.

The posters I remember definitely said dogs usually travel upstairs on double deckers, though to be fair I am going back a fair number of years here........

johnnychips · 20 Feb 2020

Do you have to buy a ticket for a dog on a bus these days? I’m sure you used to.

Busaholic · 20 Feb 2020

johnnychips said:
Do you have to buy a ticket for a dog on a bus these days? I’m sure you used to.

Only a Rover! Sorry, couldn't resist that.

ValleyLines142 · 20 Feb 2020

Jordan Adam said:
I don't see that being a huge issue, especially given how many people put their feet up on seats etc. Surely it's better than the dog lying down and blocking the isle, not to mention the bus floors can often be filthy... The logic that dogs must be taken upstairs is flawed too given that it's arguably more unsafe as many dogs don't like stairs (never mind in a moving vehicle).

It also reminds me of the First/Stagecoach policy that a child under 5 can travel free so long as they don't occupy a seat. If a bus is half empty i highly doubt a driver is going to get out the cab and tell the child to sit on their parents lap or stand. Fact of the matter is that while it may be company policy on paper, in reality few drivers will enforce it and most inspectors wouldn't either as it's totally irrational.

One Cardiff Bus driver once got out of his cab a long time ago and told a parent that her child would need to sit on her lap as said child didn't pay a fare. Personally I find this stupid as with trains a ticket doesn't guarantee you a seat so I don't see why it's any different for a bus (although I know the principle is the same on a train).

Personally I have no issue with dogs on seats as long as the dog in question is relatively clean. If it's a bigger dog/one that malts I think it would be courteous to maybe put a small blanket or carrier bag on the seat, but that's a bit impractical.

I for one would gladly pick a dog over ghastly children anyday!

TUC · 20 Feb 2020

Guide dogs are quite large animals but are trained to sit on the floor and not on seats. If guide dogs can do that, so can other dogs.

yorksrob · 20 Feb 2020

Until dogs start wearing underpants, they've no place on the seats.

Geordie driver · 20 Feb 2020

Dogs used to be a child fare in the North East but they got rid of that rule ages ago.

Children travel free or reduced rate on the basis they give up their seat to an adult, I have in the past enforced this when I have had old people standing and children sitting.

arbeia · 20 Feb 2020

As an Inspector if a dog was on a seat, I asked them to remove it. For the odd stroppy owner, I just asked the owner if they had wiped its arse the last time it had done something. The shame of showing them up invariably worked. Only one I laughed at was spotting a dog on a seat as I made my way down the bus. I asked the lady to remove it off the seat. Her reply was "I've got a rug under it, and anyway my dog is cleaner than the floor." Just delicately let that one go!

BJames · 20 Feb 2020

TUC said:
Guide dogs are quite large animals but are trained to sit on the floor and not on seats. If guide dogs can do that, so can other dogs.

Precisely. I have a smallish dog and wouldn't dream of having it on the seat on a bus (or train for that matter), and I would expect the same from others. You don't know if the dog has fleas, is dirty or moulting - there is no need for it to be on the seat. Even if the bus is empty. They aren't long journeys and even if they are the same still applies, and I have seen people (including non-staff) ask the owners to remove their dogs from seats before. The world doesn't revolve around them.

njlawley · 21 Feb 2020

Jordan Adam said:
I don't see that being a huge issue, especially given how many people put their feet up on seats etc. Surely it's better than the dog lying down and blocking the isle, not to mention the bus floors can often be filthy... The logic that dogs must be taken upstairs is flawed too given that it's arguably more unsafe as many dogs don't like stairs (never mind in a moving vehicle).

So you can deal with the repercussions of someone suffering an allergic reaction to sitting on a dog's malted fur. It's happened to me, it's happened to my daughter.

My daughter had a massive eczema flare-up that took weeks to settle down, because she sat on a tip-up seat that was covered in fur.

Jordan Adam · 21 Feb 2020

njlawley said:
So you can deal with the repercussions of someone suffering an allergic reaction to sitting on a dog's malted fur. It's happened to me, it's happened to my daughter.

My daughter had a massive eczema flare-up that took weeks to settle down, because she sat on a tip-up seat that was covered in fur.

That doesn't require a dog sitting on the seat to happen though. Fur can just as easily be transferred from dog to clothes to a seat.

Meerkat · 21 Feb 2020

How does a dog get onto a seat.....it puts its paws on the seat. So if you aren’t allowed feet on seats then dogs shouldn’t be on seats.
Nightmare for drivers because dog owners seem even more blind to how their charges might upset others than parents are!

L401CJF · 21 Feb 2020

Where I work we can allow multiple dogs onboard at our discretion although usually best to ask both owners how their dogs react to other dogs first. General rule of thumb is if we have a dog onboard a double decker and a 2nd passenger with dog wants to board, ask them to sit on the opposite deck to the dog already onboard if possible.

Regarding dogs on seats, I always ask dog owners to get their dog off the seat if I see one - I don't fancy sitting on seats covered in dog hairs, or worms for that matter! I have no issue with people sitting their dog on their lap, if they dont mind dog hairs and dirty a*se on their clothes thats their problem as other passengers arn't going to be sitting on their knee!

Edit - regarding dog fares on our buses, they go free of charge. I did a brief spell on loan to a depot in Manchester a few years ago and a fare applied for dogs there - around 50p at the time. I always forgot to charge that fare though coming from an area that allows free dog travel.

njlawley · 21 Feb 2020

Jordan Adam said:
That doesn't require a dog sitting on the seat to happen though. Fur can just as easily be transferred from dog to clothes to a seat.

Given the amount of fur we found on the seat, that would have taken some doing. But my point still stands.

Even if it was off someone's clothes, the amount concerned would be minimal. For someone's back and bum, that would need fur to go from dog to seat to clothes to bus seat. I would expect more on someone's front, which isn't normally going to magically find its way onto a seat.

Dog on seat.

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