Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

theironroad · 19 Feb 2020

greaterwest said:
I don't believe they were ever supposed to re-enter service on SWR with the original traction motors - the retractioning project has been delayed.

The plan from the outset was to introduce them all with DC traction. Once all 9 X 10-442 formations were in service, 7 out and about each day, 1 spare and 1 in maintenance then the plan was to withdraw them one by one to retraction.

Obviously the whole project is way behind but I believe the retractioning is still going to happen, though crew conversion training for drivers will then have to be undertaken.

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456WWWM · 19 Feb 2020

Took the 18:48 from Waterloo to Bournemouth today, stuck around after a work event for a few hours to catch a plastic piggy for the first time.

I like the paint job on the exterior, they look better than the class 444s at the moment until they've been repainted from the SWT livery. Quieter ride than the 444s but as others have said the seats are not as good. The USB charging is pitifully slow which is a shame, and I also noticed that some carriages are abnormally warm.

winks · 19 Feb 2020

Caught the 21.12 from Clapham this evening (delayed by 14 mins) presumably by the interference with signalling. They seem to lose so much in dwell times and slow acceleration I can’t see how these units will ever be on time

theironroad · 19 Feb 2020

winks said:
Caught the 21.12 from Clapham this evening (delayed by 14 mins) presumably by the interference with signalling. They seem to lose so much in dwell times and slow acceleration I can’t see how these units will ever be on time

Why did you presume it was signal interference? AFAIK, there's not been a issue with 442 and signals for weeks now.

However, the inbound working that forms the 2105 didn't arrive into Waterloo until 2110, so there was a late start. The inbound service was delayed from haslemere inwards following a stopping service which also stops at CLJ .

The 442s certainly still have some issues, but signal interference isn't really one of them at the moment.

theironroad · 19 Feb 2020

456WWWM said:
Took the 18:48 from Waterloo to Bournemouth today, stuck around after a work event for a few hours to catch a plastic piggy for the first time.

I like the paint job on the exterior, they look better than the class 444s at the moment until they've been repainted from the SWT livery. Quieter ride than the 444s but as others have said the seats are not as good. The USB charging is pitifully slow which is a shame, and I also noticed that some carriages are abnormally warm.

Apparently the thermostats have been reduced from 21 to 20c but it's fair to say that some of the carriages are still too warm. However, it's a 10 car and there's probably a suitably variation in each carriage to suit everyone.

Dibbo4025 · 19 Feb 2020

winks said:
Caught the 21.12 from Clapham this evening (delayed by 14 mins) presumably by the interference with signalling. They seem to lose so much in dwell times and slow acceleration I can’t see how these units will ever be on time

From my observations they will keep time if they're given a clear run - as in terminal starter off at least a minute before departure and the least restrictive aspects on the fastest path (which on some trains esp up trains just before Guildford requires other services to be out of their paths) - and a following wind they can just hold time but on such a busy network this just doesn't happen.

pompeyfan · 20 Feb 2020

There was disruptive youths (AGAIN) at Farncombe which blocked the down line for 30 minutes, as a result crews and stock were out of place causing some displacement, including onto the 2105 off of Waterloo.

Thumper1127 · 20 Feb 2020

pompeyfan said:
There was disruptive youths (AGAIN) at Farncombe which blocked the down line for 30 minutes, as a result crews and stock were out of place causing some displacement, including onto the 2105 off of Waterloo.

Let’s hope that if they are caught and prosecuted they don’t get the pathetic £4.80 fine plus £36 victim surcharge metered out recently to a guy for trespassing at New Milton!

theironroad · 20 Feb 2020

Dibbo4025 said:
From my observations they will keep time if they're given a clear run - as in terminal starter off at least a minute before departure and the least restrictive aspects on the fastest path (which on some trains esp up trains just before Guildford requires other services to be out of their paths) - and a following wind they can just hold time but on such a busy network this just doesn't happen.

Not helped by a long standing 20mph temporary speed restriction just London side of Guildford on mainline which means a long slow drag out of Guildford.

Numerous other speed restrictions across the network all add to these delays and as people know the acceleration on 442 has never been great, so recovering from every emergency or temporary speed restriction or restrictive signalling is a challenge even when rail is dry. 442 are more sensitive to poor railhead conditions and that means even slower recovery. If an up train is more than a few minutes late presenting at Woking jnc then it's lost its pathway and the rot just gets worse and before you know it it's 10-15 late into Waterloo.

Thumper1127 · 20 Feb 2020

theironroad said:
Not helped by a long standing 20mph temporary speed restriction just London side of Guildford on mainline which means a long slow drag out of Guildford.

Numerous other speed restrictions across the network all add to these delays and as people know the acceleration on 442 has never been great, so recovering from every emergency or temporary speed restriction or restrictive signalling is a challenge even when rail is dry. 442 are more sensitive to poor railhead conditions and that means even slower recovery. If an up train is more than a few minutes late presenting at Woking jnc then it's lost its pathway and the rot just gets worse and before you know it it's 10-15 late into Waterloo.

The 0714 Portsmouth to Waterloo yesterday ran well all the way to Woking junction yesterday when it was stymied by what looked, real time (I was watching) as a regulation error. The up Bournemouth was running a few minutes late which would have put about another minute or so on it but after that had cleared it just sat at the junction. The down Alton was allowed to proceed first. Unless there was an actual signalling or points issue this was a significant regulation error as there was ample time for the 0714 to cross. 1 min late at the junction, 8 late into Woking.

theironroad · 20 Feb 2020

Thumper1127 said:
The 0714 Portsmouth to Waterloo yesterday ran well all the way to Woking junction yesterday when it was stymied by what looked, real time (I was watching) as a regulation error. The up Bournemouth was running a few minutes late which would have put about another minute or so on it but after that had cleared it just sat at the junction. The down Alton was allowed to proceed first. Unless there was an actual signalling or points issue this was a significant regulation error as there was ample time for the 0714 to cross. 1 min late at the junction, 8 late into Woking.

Not really surprised, I've not looked but wouldn't be surprised if the down Alton then sat at brookwood for ages.

I certainly don't want to have a go at signallers, especially as Woking and the junction are busy places, but some of the decisions that happen there are a bit odd. The pigs, any pig will fly before the long hoped for flyover ever happens at Woking jnc.

Thumper1127 · 20 Feb 2020

theironroad said:
Not really surprised, I've not looked but wouldn't be surprised if the down Alton then sat at brookwood for ages.

I certainly don't want to have a go at signallers, especially as Woking and the junction are busy places, but some of the decisions that happen there are a bit odd. The pigs, any pig will fly before the long hoped for flyover ever happens at Woking jnc.

No, me neither re having a go at Signallers in general, there can often be tough calls to make but this would seem to be a bit of a howler. The Alton was booked to stand at Woking for 4 mins and my guess is that the signalman pulled off for it having overlooked this, blocking the up Pompey line. I doubt he/she will make the same mistake again in a hurry! Apologies to all if I’ve interpreted this wrongly but watching it real time certainly seemed to suggest this was the case and the RTT records seem to support it.

Back on topic I’m hoping to get my second 442 trip next week. Will post findings.

winks · 20 Feb 2020

theironroad said:
Why did you presume it was signal interference? AFAIK, there's not been a issue with 442 and signals for weeks now.

However, the inbound working that forms the 2105 didn't arrive into Waterloo until 2110, so there was a late start. The inbound service was delayed from haslemere inwards following a stopping service which also stops at CLJ .

The 442s certainly still have some issues, but signal interference isn't really one of them at the moment.

Well the automated station announcer at Clapham said the train was delay due to a fault with the signalling equipment yet all other trains seemed Ok

Bigfoot · 20 Feb 2020

winks said:
Well the automated station announcer at Clapham said the train was delay due to a fault with the signalling equipment yet all other trains seemed Ok

There was a points failure on the up slow at New Malden, everything was put onto the up fast which delayed inbound services. Signalling faults are a huge range of things, not all is caused by the 442.

theironroad · 20 Feb 2020

Bigfoot said:
There was a points failure on the up slow at New Malden, everything was put onto the up fast which delayed inbound services. Signalling faults are a huge range of things, not all is caused by the 442.

+1
...

The Ham · 21 Feb 2020

Thumper1127 said:
Let’s hope that if they are caught and prosecuted they don’t get the pathetic £4.80 fine plus £36 victim surcharge metered out recently to a guy for trespassing at New Milton!

That's acceptable if the victim surcharge is the amount for every victim of the incident, as that would run to tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds given the number of passengers involved...

physics34 · 21 Feb 2020

Without me havent to look through everything can someone quickly tell me roughly what time the 442s leave clapham on the way down to portsmouth.... between 09.00 and 12.00. Thanks

Thumper1127 · 21 Feb 2020

physics34 said:
Without me havent to look through everything can someone quickly tell me roughly what time the 442s leave clapham on the way down to portsmouth.... between 09.00 and 12.00. Thanks

They don’t stop at Clapham.

Bigfoot · 21 Feb 2020

physics34 said:
Without me havent to look through everything can someone quickly tell me roughly what time the 442s leave clapham on the way down to portsmouth.... between 09.00 and 12.00. Thanks

The laziness is strong here.

pompeyfan · 21 Feb 2020

Bigfoot said:
The laziness is strong here.

to be fair I’m sure we’re all guilty of doing something similar at least once on here, I certainly am.

spark001uk · 21 Feb 2020

physics34 said:
Without me havent to look through everything can someone quickly tell me roughly what time the 442s leave clapham on the way down to portsmouth.... between 09.00 and 12.00. Thanks

The only 442 which stops at Clapham is 9B69; the 2105 Waterloo to Poole.
So if you want a Pompey 442 you'll have to get it from Waterloo I'm afraid.

Thumper1127 · 21 Feb 2020

spark001uk said:
The only 442 which stops at Clapham is 9B69; the 2105 Waterloo to Poole.
So if you want a Pompey 442 you'll have to get it from Waterloo I'm afraid.

Feel a bit guilty that my earlier response was curt but I was in a rush. Weekdays out of Waterloo:

0800, 0830, 0930, 1230, 1300, 1700, 1715, 1730. Suggest pick from Waterloo or go from Clapham to Woking and pick up from there (but not the 1715 which goes via Cobham).

pompeyfan · 21 Feb 2020

Eventually when the 9Gxx service starts running as 442s on Sunday they’re Waterloo, Clapham, Guildford, Havant so should make a fine sight squealing through Petersfield and Haslemere.

K.o.R · 21 Feb 2020

pompeyfan said:
Eventually when the 9Gxx service starts running as 442s on Sunday they’re Waterloo, Clapham, Guildford, Havant so should make a fine sight squealing through Petersfield and Haslemere.

As in non-stop Guildford-Havant? I remember the "super-fast" services, way back when.

I have a question: Along the ends of the carriages, where the end is joined to the roof, there is what looks like a very very poorly-done weld, or what would happen if you painted a line of paint remover across the paintwork. What's that all about?

swt_passenger · 21 Feb 2020

K.o.R said:
As in non-stop Guildford-Havant? I remember the "super-fast" services, way back when.

I have a question: Along the ends of the carriages, where the end is joined to the roof, there is what looks like a very very poorly-done weld, or what would happen if you painted a line of paint remover across the paintwork. What's that all about?

Is it some sort of a sealant between separate sections, where the cab front can be removed in one piece?

K.o.R · 21 Feb 2020

I don't recall seeing it on the cab ends; this is only on the normal coach ends (all of them).

It looks like where two pieces are joined, but it just looks so badly done and very out of place on what is, overall, a pretty well-finished vehicle.

swt_passenger · 21 Feb 2020

K.o.R said:
I don't recall seeing it on the cab ends; this is only on the normal coach ends (all of them).

It looks like where two pieces are joined, but it just looks so badly done and very out of place on what is, overall, a pretty well-finished vehicle.

I just went back to the fairly recent pic of the smashed window in post #4898. That join also seems to fit your description?

K.o.R · 21 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
I just went back to the fairly recent pic of the smashed window in post #4898. That join also seems to fit your description?

Ah, yes, I see the one you mean. Yes, like that, but in a sort of L-shape along the ends.

physics34 · 22 Feb 2020

Thumper1127 said:
Feel a bit guilty that my earlier response was curt but I was in a rush. Weekdays out of Waterloo:

0800, 0830, 0930, 1230, 1300, 1700, 1715, 1730. Suggest pick from Waterloo or go from Clapham to Woking and pick up from there (but not the 1715 which goes via Cobham).

Thanks everyone for the info... got the 12.30 (12.55) from woking and the return from PortsmouthHbr. Good to ride a 442 again. Smart and comfortable as usual.. although the USB ports didnt work

winks · 22 Feb 2020

What’s the top speed potentially these units can get up to running the Waterloo to Poole route ? I know their top speed is 100mph in theory but what’s the highest section of the route for speed ?

Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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