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Why did TPE opt for loco hauled for Nova 3?
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swt_passenger
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Too little electrification to use a bimode MU, but retains the option to change the traction in the future? I think it’s all come up in the existing TPE discussions before though, this certainly isn’t a new question...
The_Train
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Because locos are much more fun than units 
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, that one is the correct answer. That's also why they are 22m vehicles with the window layout they have - they were a follow on order from the Caledonian Sleeper seated coaches. Otherwise you might have expected them to be 24m vehicles more like a single ended 397.
Nymanic
Member
Being a follow-on order (and therefore a variant of an existing product) explains some of the design peculiarities, such as the under-window fans and large deadlight zones between windows. These differ from the window layout on 397s.
The spacing lends poorly to the standard class seating layout on the Nova 3, but is better suited to either first class (Mk5A) or a compartment layout (Mk5).
Edited: Nova 3s have no window blinds in standard, but the pillar design made it look like they did.
The spacing lends poorly to the standard class seating layout on the Nova 3, but is better suited to either first class (Mk5A) or a compartment layout (Mk5).
Edited: Nova 3s have no window blinds in standard, but the pillar design made it look like they did.
Halish Railway
Established Member
If I remember rightly, the plan was that when the Manchester to York (Diggle route or TPE North) was electrified, the 68 would be replaced with an electric locomotive and more coaches added to operate on the fully electrified routes (Newcastle and Edinburgh). This would allow the 802s to be displaced to operate services to Teeside, Scarborough and I guess Hull.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the TPE franchise agreement, an option is available to order 88s.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the TPE franchise agreement, an option is available to order 88s.
As above poster says. Realistically TPE would have ordered more 802's, but the time scales for in service weren't available against their plans... in hindsight with the delays in the 'Nova 3's' launch, that now wouldn't have mattered. So here we are. An odd-ball fleet. But TPE will make use of them as best they can.
Personally I thought the customer experience seriously lagged behind the previous class 185 units when I had a ride on one. Quite why they are so rattly and have such terrible ride over the same tracks as a 185 uses I don't understand.
Hard seats too which I appreciate apparently some people are fans of but 185s don't have them and I've never heard of complaints that those are too soft!
Loads of things which are allegedly temporary issues too like no hot drinks for standard passengers, and lack of live screens and announcements.
Hard seats too which I appreciate apparently some people are fans of but 185s don't have them and I've never heard of complaints that those are too soft!
Loads of things which are allegedly temporary issues too like no hot drinks for standard passengers, and lack of live screens and announcements.
The slot is there for them, they're just too cheap to fit them. Their 802s have them in Standard...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
TBH I hate them (they sit alongside reclining seats on short haul flights as an unnecessary source of conflict) and was very pleased to see their omission from the 397 and Northern CAF units. I didn't notice Mk5s didn't have them, but good. If you must have them horizontally mounted curtains are better as each window seat occupier can choose the position themselves.
I don't get the Mk5 hot drinks thing, for years hot drinks have been served from trolleys on units with no facilities for the trolley other than a vestibule to put it in. Buy some trolleys, stock them landside with 2 pump flasks, one with quality filter coffee and one with hot water for tea (or to keep it really simple just use Nescafe), spend half an hour writing out a risk assessment if you haven't already got one, done. But TPE long seem to have found the basics a bit difficult.
Grannyjoans
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When is the trans pennine route expected to be electified ?
Just trying to guess how long the 68's will be used on this work
Just trying to guess how long the 68's will be used on this work
It's been sitting with the Government for the past 5 years. Widely expected TransPennine Route Upgrade will get the green light. However, will it be done in full?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
There isn't a date for that, but no earlier than CP7 (2024-29).
There's a CP6 project to electrify York-Church Fenton and Leeds-Huddersfield, but that doesn't close the gap.
We'll have to wait to see what gets approved next.
Meanwhile everybody else, including other First Group operators, is ordering class 802 bimodes (or variants), leaving TPE out on a limb with LHCS.
IamTrainsYT
Member
Travelled on them Saturday. Quite nice. Only
Thing I would say is the seats are too hard and the air conditioning seems to always be on. However they had fast acceleration and I got to my destination early!
Thing I would say is the seats are too hard and the air conditioning seems to always be on. However they had fast acceleration and I got to my destination early!
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