Eurostar refuse to assist stranded customers with multiple tickets

Starmill · 20 Feb 2020

We used Eurostar to travel from London to Brussels for a connecting service to Cologne last August. As we approached Brussels, there was an onboard announcement that the connecting Deutsche Bahn train to Cologne was delayed by an hour and would no longer be stopping at Brussels Midi.

Affected passengers were instructed to travel from Midi to Brussels Nord to catch the train. We did so, only to find the Cologne train had not been delayed by an hour and had already left.

We headed back to Brussels Midi but there was no connection to Cologne. We returned to the Eurostar terminal where there were about 70 fellow travellers who had also missed their connection.

Staff assured me that Eurostar would arrange a hotel for us at its expense. Ten minutes later, we were told management had decreed that they were not liable for the missed connection, and that it was up to us to sort out accommodation and forward travel plans.

Security staff were forcibly stopping Eurostar customers filming when we demanded the manager explain in person, and insisted they delete any footage.

Our request for the manager’s name was refused. The manager then appeared with three armed security staff. The atmosphere was now threatening and my partner and I left to find a hotel.

Eurostar has since accepted no responsibility for its misleading announcement. It has apologised for the behaviour of staff in Brussels but states that it’s an internal matter and will be dealt with by them, and that’s the end of it. LN, Worcester

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/feb/19/eurostar-delay-security-missed-connection

It's clear that the customers had two tickets, the first from London to Brussels and another from Brussels to Cologne. It is unclear who the retailer of the tickets was, but of course, the Eurostar website issues "split" tickets in this way without telling you that's what it's doing, so it could well have been them.

Eurostar told the guardian that they were "...not able to support delays from Brussels, where their journey with us had finished." - they did not accept responsibility for the incorrect information provided by their train manager, blaming Deutsche Bahn.

Deutsche Bahn agreed only to provide vouchers for the cost of the second ticket. Notable that this was not cash, and they did not cover the cost of the customer's hotel. It is assumed that DB conveyed the stranded customers on their first service the following morning.

All in all, a pretty appalling situation. You can book a through itinerary on the Eurostar website, paying perhaps £150 - 200, and then simply be abandoned and left to deal with the consequences of the disruption yourself. Neither company has acted in a particularly consumer-friendly way, and both seem to be doing their best to convince me not to use their services in conjunction with one another.

Soon, through tickets between London and German stations will be unavailable, and this mess will be the only way to travel.

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Bletchleyite · 20 Feb 2020

And they wonder why people fly.

The mind boggles as to why the EU does not legislate on this matter.

dutchflyer · 20 Feb 2020

Somehow I recall this is a repeated story of by now a few monthes old-clearly those treated like that are not overly happy and want to take it to any coöperating medium.
Same-same applies to THALYS.
Its also mostly a EU thing-so pretty soon EUR* start telling that ´as UK is in Brexit clouds, we are not tied to those nasty rules from BRUssels burocrats anymore!?

ainsworth74 · 20 Feb 2020

Indeed. Split ticketing on the Continent is a risky venture for long distance journeys. I did it for one trip from Krakow to Berlin via Warsaw (splitting at Warsaw) but there was a later connection and a walk up ticket would have been affordable if worst came to worst.

But until the EU force the relevant companies to provide protections in line with those we enjoy via the NRCoT I would be very wary of splitting where I either couldn't afford a new ticket and/or there was not an alternative itinerary. There's just too much risk sadly.

farci · 20 Feb 2020

According to this website compensation should be available if your train was delayed

'If you are informed that your train will arrive at your final destination with a delay of at least 1 hour, you have the right to:

cancel your travel plans and ask for a refund of your ticket – this may be a full or partial refund (covering the part of the journey not made)
you may also be entitled to a return journey to your initial point of departure, if the delay prevents you from fulfilling the purpose of your trip, or
transport to your final destination at the earliest opportunity (or on a date of your choosing) under comparable conditions. This includes alternative transport when the train is blocked and the service is suspended
assistance in the form of meals and refreshments (proportionate to the waiting time) if the delay is longer than 1 hour
accommodation if you have to stay overnight

If you decide to continue your journey as planned or to accept alternative transport to your destination, you may be entitled to compensation.

Compensation - delay

25% of the ticket price if the delay is between 1 and 2 hours
50% if the ticket price if the delay is more than 2 hours

You will not receive compensation if:

you were informed of a delay before you bought your ticket
you opted for a refund of your ticket'

ainsworth74 · 20 Feb 2020

But the problem is that as they held separate tickets Eurostar delivered them to their destination so concluded their contract for transport. That they had further tickets for travel onwards is irrelevant from Eurostars point of view as they've met their obligation.

Starmill · 20 Feb 2020

farci said:
According to this website compensation should be available if your train was delayed

'If you are informed that your train will arrive at your final destination with a delay of at least 1 hour, you have the right to:

cancel your travel plans and ask for a refund of your ticket – this may be a full or partial refund (covering the part of the journey not made)

you may also be entitled to a return journey to your initial point of departure, if the delay prevents you from fulfilling the purpose of your trip, or

transport to your final destination at the earliest opportunity (or on a date of your choosing) under comparable conditions. This includes alternative transport when the train is blocked and the service is suspended

assistance in the form of meals and refreshments (proportionate to the waiting time) if the delay is longer than 1 hour

accommodation if you have to stay overnight

If you decide to continue your journey as planned or to accept alternative transport to your destination, you may be entitled to compensation.

Compensation - delay

25% of the ticket price if the delay is between 1 and 2 hours

50% if the ticket price if the delay is more than 2 hours

You will not receive compensation if:

you were informed of a delay before you bought your ticket

you opted for a refund of your ticket'

This only makes it all the most frustrating that the company offered vouchers rather than cash. Presumably this is because the newspaper were in touch with them, so they organised what they thought was a "goodwill gesture".

farci · 20 Feb 2020

Starmill said:
This only makes it all the most frustrating that the company offered vouchers rather than cash. Presumably this is because the newspaper were in touch with them, so they organised what they thought was a "goodwill gesture".

.

OK - what about this provision as quoted on Seat61?
'If you miss a connection in Brussels between Eurostar and an onward Thalys or ICE to Amsterdam or Cologne, don't worry. Simply go to the SNCB (Belgian railways) international booking centre, off the main concourse below the tracks, next to the entrance to the Eurostar terminal between platforms 3 & 2. There's a queuing system, press the Railteam button which I believe gives you priority. Explain the situation and ask for the Railteam stamp on your ticket that allows you to hop on the next train. It shouldn't matter whether the next train is an ICE or Thalys, both are members of Railteam. Do not talk to Thalys station staff, as there have been reports of them not being properly trained in CIV & Railteam Promise and incorrectly telling people that they need to buy another ticket. You don't! Once you have the Railteam stamp, you can simply board the next train and show the ticket and stamp to the conductor. Naturally, you may have to use the tip-up seats in the entrance vestibules on the Thalys if it's full, but it's not a long journey. Feedback is always appreciated! If your onward travel is by InterCity train to domestic Belgian destinations or to Luxembourg or the Netherlands via Roosendaal, you'd just get on the next train, no other action necessary as your ticket is valid on any train in any case.'

30907 · 20 Feb 2020

Starmill said:
This only makes it all the most frustrating that the company offered vouchers rather than cash. Presumably this is because the newspaper were in touch with them, so they organised what they thought was a "goodwill gesture".

No, DB always do Fahrgastrechte refunds that way, rightly or wrongly.

As far as I can see, Eurostar staff committed two errors:
1. Passing on information from SNCB/NMBS - hardly their fault.
2. Offering hotel accommodation and then withdrawing their offer - definitely poor, but in line with policy.
And possibly by not directing people to the Railteam facility.

The fault lies with DB or with SNCB (their representatives) for failing to facilitate onward travel that night, which in normal circumstances would have been possible:
the last DB train is the 1825, but there is a Thalys to Cologne an hour later followed by a local connection via Welkenraedt.
This doesn't help anyone connecting (say) to the Vienna sleeper, but would have catered for a good number of people.

Starmill · 20 Feb 2020

30907 said:
The fault lies with DB or with SNCB (their representatives) for failing to facilitate onward travel that night, which in normal circumstances would have been possible:
the last DB train is the 1825, but there is a Thalys to Cologne an hour later followed by a local connection via Welkenraedt.
This doesn't help anyone connecting (say) to the Vienna sleeper, but would have catered for a good number of people.

Indeed. Presumably there's a need for Thalys / SNCB to agree to convey the DB ticket holders in question, however. If they don't those options aren't necessarily more useful than hotels (Thalys may actually cost more).

Starmill · 20 Feb 2020

30907 said:
No, DB always do Fahrgastrechte refunds that way, rightly or wrongly.

I am convinced that some people must have been given delay compensation in cash? Several people have mentioned receiving it, they cannot all have been exceptional cases.

Unless you mean that they gave the full amount in vouchers, and their compensation scheme would have offered cash for a lesser amount. One way or another the offer is pitiful in proportion of the disruption incurred - vouchers willbe close to useless for most of the customers in question, whom the company knows don't live in Germany.

Airline passengers would be treated better and entitled to far more compensation in comparison.

Bletchleyite · 20 Feb 2020

dutchflyer said:
Its also mostly a EU thing-so pretty soon EUR* start telling that ´as UK is in Brexit clouds, we are not tied to those nasty rules from BRUssels burocrats anymore!?

They could mandate it for any journey where any part of it is in the EU. Though it is of course the UK, and not the EU, that has the best (domestic) protection here, even if some TOCs might shirk their responsibilities from time to time.

Bletchleyite · 20 Feb 2020

Starmill said:
Airline passengers would be treated better and entitled to far more compensation in comparison.

Which is why the mind boggles as to why they aren't doing something about rail connections - EU261 is incredibly strong when it comes to air.

30907 · 20 Feb 2020

Starmill said:
I am convinced that some people must have been given delay compensation in cash? Several people have mentioned receiving it, they cannot all have been exceptional cases.

Unless you mean that they gave the full amount in vouchers, and their compensation scheme would have offered cash for a lesser amount. One way or another the offer is pitiful in proportion of the disruption incurred - vouchers willbe close to useless for most of the customers in question, whom the company knows don't live in Germany.

Airline passengers would be treated better and entitled to far more compensation in comparison.

Sorry, haven't followed the story, and didn't realise some customers had had cash refunds. Nor do I know what proportion of the 70 passengers weren't in a position to use vouchers.

Airline compensation IIRC kicks in at 4 hours delay, and there are plenty of horror stories out there...

That said, if the passengers were told by SNCB staff there was no way of getting to Cologne that night, DB should have refunded hotel costs (think they allow EUR80 each).

47550 · 21 Feb 2020

What would the position be if I booked (separate tickets) for a uk journey followed by a Eur* journey but missed the latter because the uk train was late. Would I be able to travel on the next Eur* journey ?
Thanks

30907 · 21 Feb 2020

47550 said:
What would the position be if I booked (separate tickets) for a uk journey followed by a Eur* journey but missed the latter because the uk train was late. Would I be able to travel on the next Eur* journey ?
Thanks

This is where tickets to LONDON INTERNATIONAL CIV come in handy as ES are bound to make arrangements to convey you. (just as DB should have done in Brussels).

AlbertBeale · 21 Feb 2020

30907 said:
This is where tickets to LONDON INTERNATIONAL CIV come in handy as ES are bound to make arrangements to convey you. (just as DB should have done in Brussels).

In the other direction, when my DB connections Hamburg-Cologne went wrong a few months back, so missing the Cologne-Brussels train I was booked on, Cologne station staff told me the next train to Brussels would be too late for the last E'star of the night to London, so put me up in a nice hotel for the night with no prompting. The next morning, they said that I couldn't get directly from Brussels to London that day because of Belgian engineering work, so they'd have to route me to London via Paris! Though to get to Paris I had to go via Brussels... which turned out to be possible. I had to do a lot of running around between E'star and Thalys at Brussels, and then tell the story all over again to E'star in Paris; but my multiply endorsed ticket did the trick, and at no stage did it seem that being stranded, or not being got back in the end, or needing to pay for more tickets, was likely. I ended up in London 21 hours late.

However, I was on a through ticket....

Merseysider · 21 Feb 2020

47550 said:
What would the position be if I booked (separate tickets) for a uk journey followed by a Eur* journey but missed the latter because the uk train was late. Would I be able to travel on the next Eur* journey ?
Thanks

From anecdotal evidence from family, Eurostar will accommodate passengers on the next train - even with non-CIV tickets - and in the case of my sister who missed the last train to Brussels through severe delay, Eurostar arranged a seat on the very first train the next day, even though her ticket was only to London Terminals.

With a ticket to Eurostar CIV or London International CIV, there is an automatic right to be conveyed later.

33Hz · 2 Mar 2020

Recently travelling back from Rotterdam in Business Premier, I bumped into someone I knew on the platform who was travelling Standard Premier. We were both taking the same Eurostar from Rotterdam to Brussels, then de-training to check in at security to get get back on the same train to London (run as a different service of course). We should have had 45 minutes to do this.

The train into Brussels was late, leaving us 20 minutes to check in. Being in BP with a 10 minute check in I was fine, but the check in staff were going to refuse my friend and his companion boarding - despite it being the last train of the day and caused by their own late running service. It was only when I gave the guy a talking to about the impression he was setting to someone consciously deciding to try something other than flying and how I would make him famous that that he let them through. Utterly ridiculous customer service.

Yet a couple of months later, when an inbound DB service was late and there were 40 or 50 passengers going on to London, the same check in desk allowed the whole lot to queue jump when there were circa 15 minutes to departure. This of course was the right thing to do, but strange they would treat DB pax like that and their own like scum...

Bletchleyite · 2 Mar 2020

That is truly appalling. That train should be considered one service and should wait until everyone has passed security and reboarded.

Starmill · 2 Mar 2020

Bletchleyite said:
That is truly appalling. That train should be considered one service and should wait until everyone has passed security and reboarded.

I think it's deliberately done in the way that it is so that the connection is not viable unless you pay for Business Premier. By contrast, Deutsche Bahn passengers subject to delay would have had the right to travel under CIV as they would have had a booked connection.

Bletchleyite · 2 Mar 2020

Starmill said:
I think it's deliberately done in the way that it is so that the connection is not viable unless you pay for Business Premier

Is it not sold as a through train, then?

superjohn · 2 Mar 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Is it not sold as a through train, then?

It certainly can’t be booked as a through journey online, none of the southbound Eurostars from Amsterdam can be booked beyond Brussels. I don’t know if this is deliberate or just because the Thalys connections fit the timetable better, ie. there is always a later Thalys departure that would connect with the intended onward Eurostar.

They might be able to force through a booking if you called them.

Bletchleyite · 2 Mar 2020

Ah, in that case it presumably effectively doesn't meet the minimum connection time and so Eurostar are correct in not supporting it, the separate tickets being of little relevance to the situation. So the same as a domestic UK journey where the minimum connection time had not been allowed.

Mag_seven · 2 Mar 2020

No wonder people fly. As I said in another thread the "European Railway" really needs to up its game in terms of things like this if we are to get people off of planes and on to trains.

Bletchleyite · 2 Mar 2020

Mag_seven said:
No wonder people fly. As I said in another thread the "European Railway" really needs to up its game in terms of things like this if we are to get people off of planes and on to trains.

If they had purchased a through ticket including a supported connection then there wouldn't have been a problem. If you buy two Ryanair tickets with a "connection" they'll tell you to get lost, too.

It seems they didn't allow the minimum connection time.

I do agree the EU should legislate on the matter, but it would still require minimum connection times to be met in any plan.

DanielB · 3 Mar 2020

superjohn said:
It certainly can’t be booked as a through journey online, none of the southbound Eurostars from Amsterdam can be booked beyond Brussels. I don’t know if this is deliberate or just because the Thalys connections fit the timetable better, ie. there is always a later Thalys departure that would connect with the intended onward Eurostar.

Booking a through journey to London on the Eurostar from Amsterdam is not possible due to the UK border control facilities at Amsterdam Central and Rotterdam Central are not yet operational. The stopover of these trains in Brussels, which allowes for the security check of the train, is considered to be too short to allow passengers to disembark, go trough border control and return to the train.
That's why you have to take an earlier Thalys (the fastest option) or a much earlier IC (these run at only 160 kph on the Dutch HSL and make a detour via Breda, where Thalys and Eurostar stay on the HSL with a top speed of 300 kph)

From Amsterdam, direct bookings will be possible as of the 30th of April. Rotterdam will follow later as the facilities over there are not yet finished. Besides that there is another small problem in Rotterdam Central: besides a tunnel this station also has a bridge connecting the platforms, whose stairs are right in the middle of the secure area behind border control. And I haven't seen any gates being installed at that bridge yet.

superjohn · 3 Mar 2020

I was meaning using Eurostar for both sections of a connecting through journey from Amsterdam to London rather using the same train throughout. Ie. Board one of the ES departures from Amsterdam to Brussels, then catch the next ES from there to London that you can get after the required checking in time allowance. This cannot be booked online but I think that is because there will always be a later Thalys that would allow the same arrival time in London.

I wonder if that end of the footbridge at Rotterdam will just be closed off permanently. The bridge itself isn’t signposted as a route to anywhere and it sees very little use, even less to access to platform 2. In fact I doubt anyone would be hugely inconvenienced if it was removed completely, it is just a leftover from the rebuilding of the station while the subway was being refurbished.

AlexNL · 3 Mar 2020

Platform 2 itself is used for all Thalys and Eurostar services towards Belgium and beyond, but it's also used by a few domestic services. Permanently closing it off for Eurostar services won't be possible.

In my experience that bridge gets some fairly good usage. It's a quick way to get from one platform to another if you're just changing trains in Rotterdam. They'll most likely put up a fence and post a security guard on top of the bridge when they start clearing the platform for departure of a Eurostar train. I presume this could be done in minutes, done shortly before the arrival of a southbound Eurostar.

duncanp · 4 Mar 2020

They'll most likely put up a fence and post a security guard on top of the bridge when they start clearing the platform for departure of a Eurostar train. I presume this could be done in minutes, done shortly before the arrival of a southbound Eurostar.

This is what happens at Lille Europe, where platform 43, which is used for services to London, is also used by domestic French trains. There is a door to and from the platform which can be closed or opened as required.

Eurostar refuse to assist stranded customers with multiple tickets

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