Owning a part of a pacer (or any other train for that matter)

Bodie · 21 Feb 2020

Hi,

Apologies if not placed post in right sub forum.

There is a particular Class 142 that is currently in warm storage at Newton Heath. In all probabilities she will end up under the cutter's torch. Much as i'd like to save her, that would be far, far too much cost.
If I find out when the time comes which scrapyard she is going to, I should be able to contact them directly and request a part to be saved, which I can then purchase off them?

Is it worth contacting Northern to see if they will save something for me?

Complete newbie at this. What is a good part to salvage?
Ideally it would be something that was original, small enough to ship and reasonably priced.

I see at the moment the 142s are going to either Kingsbury EMR or Newport.
I have the contact details for Kingsbury but don't know the name of the scrapyard in Newport?

Thanks,

Bodie

RailUK Forums

StephenHunter · 21 Feb 2020

You're better off asking the leasing companies - Porterbrook or Angel Trains.

ainsworth74 · 21 Feb 2020

Bodie said:
Is it worth contacting Northern to see if they will save something for me?

It's not up to Northern they don't own the 142s they only lease them. You'd need to contact the relevant Rolling Stock Owning Company.

Bodie said:
If I find out when the time comes which scrapyard she is going to, I should be able to contact them directly and request a part to be saved, which I can then purchase off them?

There have been reports that at least one yard have been under strict instructions from the owners of the units not to sell anything off the units in anything other than fully recycled condition (i.e. I believe they refused a request from someone to buy some seats).

47271 · 22 Feb 2020

ainsworth74 said:
It's not up to Northern they don't own the 142s they only lease them. You'd need to contact the relevant Rolling Stock Owning Company.

There have been reports that at least one yard have been under strict instructions from the owners of the units not to sell anything off the units in anything other than fully recycled condition (i.e. I believe they refused a request from someone to buy some seats).

Ha, comedy gold, a smelly old Pacer seat in your living room. Make the inlaws sit on it. And you'd need bring the kettle in to make damp run down the inside of the windows to complete the effect.

IamTrainsYT · 22 Feb 2020

you could either:
ask angel trains
ask the scrapyard

bits may also appear on ebay like this destination blind i bought

Ashley Hill · 22 Feb 2020

A flame cut cab side number would be a good souvenir. They are popular off locos.

IamTrainsYT · 22 Feb 2020

I think booths cut the numbers off 142005 and 142044

IamTrainsYT · 22 Feb 2020

Might be worth calling them, they seem to have took quite a few parts off both pacers

Howardh · 22 Feb 2020

Those pacer seats - once cleaned up a bit - could have been used in many a station waiting room*? And I bet some of the station pubs could use one or two as nostalgia items!!

*Those stations where they aren't likely to be the victim of a yob's Stanley knife, of course.

Bob Price · 22 Feb 2020

I remember at a Swindon open day in the late 70's you could grab what you wanted from a Warship. People all over the loco ripping bits off here there and everywhere.

Bletchleyite · 22 Feb 2020

ainsworth74 said:
There have been reports that at least one yard have been under strict instructions from the owners of the units not to sell anything off the units in anything other than fully recycled condition (i.e. I believe they refused a request from someone to buy some seats).

Why on earth would they do that? The things aren't going to be allowed to run any more, it's not like they're trying to prevent someone buying them to run them in service in competition with them (as I believe was the case with Eurostar). It's almost like someone at a ROSCO or TOC just hates enthusiasts. Which isn't unlikely, sadly.

IamTrainsYT · 22 Feb 2020

ainsworth74 said:
It's not up to Northern they don't own the 142s they only lease them. You'd need to contact the relevant Rolling Stock Owning Company.

There have been reports that at least one yard have been under strict instructions from the owners of the units not to sell anything off the units in anything other than fully recycled condition (i.e. I believe they refused a request from someone to buy some seats).

Would that be chasewaters 142027?

Bletchleyite · 22 Feb 2020

Thinking on, though, if you want seats it might be as easy just to acquire a set of Leyland National seats - they're the same! I think they also had the 3-width seat as a side facing bench.

adc82140 · 22 Feb 2020

There's a class 153 destination blind on ebay at the moment. Starting price 25 quid. (sorry can't link as posting on the phone)

43096 · 22 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Why on earth would they do that? The things aren't going to be allowed to run any more, it's not like they're trying to prevent someone buying them to run them in service in competition with them (as I believe was the case with Eurostar). It's almost like someone at a ROSCO or TOC just hates enthusiasts. Which isn't unlikely, sadly.

Because they have a day job to do. Can you imagine dealing with the inane requests that they get?

Bletchleyite · 22 Feb 2020

43096 said:
Because they have a day job to do. Can you imagine dealing with the inane requests that they get?

TfL seem to think it worthwhile to sell interesting bits - door buttons was the most recent one I saw (I almost bought one). Given the whacking mark-up you can put on bits that would otherwise go in the bin (seats and the likes), it would make a profitable little business.

The Lad · 22 Feb 2020

Well, a Mk1 in reasonable order could be bought for around £1k in the late 70's and is now worth £10k+ so it might not make too bad an investment if you can keep it somewhere cheaply.

D365 · 22 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
TfL seem to think it worthwhile to sell interesting bits - door buttons was the most recent one I saw (I almost bought one). Given the whacking mark-up you can put on bits that would otherwise go in the bin (seats and the likes), it would make a profitable little business.

The difference is that London “Tube” trains are known and recognised practically worldwide. With the possible exception of the HSTs, I don’t think any modern day BR stock has the same appeal.

If Booths or European Metal Recycling could see a genuine business opportunity in selling off souvenirs, I’m sure they would have given it some thought. Rolling stock scrapping is likely only a minor part of their trade, however.

StephenHunter · 22 Feb 2020

The Lad said:
Well, a Mk1 in reasonable order could be bought for around £1k in the late 70's and is now worth £10k+ so it might not make too bad an investment if you can keep it somewhere cheaply.

Though you did have to spend a fair bit on removing the asbestos.

Trainfan2019 · 22 Feb 2020

Howardh said:
Those pacer seats - once cleaned up a bit - could have been used in many a station waiting room*? And I bet some of the station pubs could use one or two as nostalgia items!!

*Those stations where they aren't likely to be the victim of a yob's Stanley knife, of course.

That's a good idea about pacer seats in waiting rooms. Far better than the uncomfortable plastic seats in most station waiting rooms these days.

Ashley Hill · 22 Feb 2020

D365 said:
f Booths or European Metal Recycling could see a genuine business opportunity in selling off souvenirs, I’m sure they would have given it some thought. Rolling stock scrapping is likely only a minor part of their trade

I visited MC Metals in the early 90s and they were selling flamecut cabsides. A nice profit on the side no doubt!

L401CJF · 23 Feb 2020

The same applied to the GN Class 313s, a friend of mine had enquired with the leasing company and the various scrapyards regarding some parts and was told they have a total destruction order on them so can't sell anything on. A destination blind from one did appear on ebay a few weeks ago and sold for around £50 if i remember correctly. It doesn't seem that long ago the likes of booths would let people have a nose around on a good day and a few friends of mine often left with souvenirs (with permission of course).

In the bus industry, the big breakers (Ripleys, PVS Barnsley etc) used to let people in until recently and would sell any part you wanted off a bus providing you brought the correct safety gear and your own tools, and removed it yourself. They have since stopped enthusiasts going in for safety reasons but if for example you own a bus which you are restoring, you can phone them up and arrange a vist to strip some buses for spares - anything which isnt metal they sell for a reasonable price as its no good to them. I did go to PVS Barnsley a few years back and we came back with a van full of seats, destinations, light fittings etc for a Volvo Olympian we were restoring and was charged a very reasonable price.

I noticed on photos of the class 508s being ripped up at Eastleigh a couple of years ago, all the cab end numbers had been cut off. Who ended up with them I dont know but I agree a nice profitable side busniess selling on little bits and pieces such as numbers, destinations etc from old stock. Destination blinds in particular are quite popular decorations for walls in pubs and so on - London bus blinds are cut up and framed plenty of which can be found at extortionate prices on ebay!

IamTrainsYT · 23 Feb 2020

L401CJF said:
The same applied to the GN Class 313s, a friend of mine had enquired with the leasing company and the various scrapyards regarding some parts and was told they have a total destruction order on them so can't sell anything on. A destination blind from one did appear on ebay a few weeks ago and sold for around £50 if i remember correctly. It doesn't seem that long ago the likes of booths would let people have a nose around on a good day and a few friends of mine often left with souvenirs (with permission of course).

In the bus industry, the big breakers (Ripleys, PVS Barnsley etc) used to let people in until recently and would sell any part you wanted off a bus providing you brought the correct safety gear and your own tools, and removed it yourself. They have since stopped enthusiasts going in for safety reasons but if for example you own a bus which you are restoring, you can phone them up and arrange a vist to strip some buses for spares - anything which isnt metal they sell for a reasonable price as its no good to them. I did go to PVS Barnsley a few years back and we came back with a van full of seats, destinations, light fittings etc for a Volvo Olympian we were restoring and was charged a very reasonable price.

I noticed on photos of the class 508s being ripped up at Eastleigh a couple of years ago, all the cab end numbers had been cut off. Who ended up with them I dont know but I agree a nice profitable side busniess selling on little bits and pieces such as numbers, destinations etc from old stock. Destination blinds in particular are quite popular decorations for walls in pubs and so on - London bus blinds are cut up and framed plenty of which can be found at extortionate prices on ebay!

They still let people go round on Saturdays I think

haven’t tried myself as there were no more pacers left there when I came across the video. The numbers and seats were took off both 142s at booths although I’m not sure who would want the merseyrail seats

StephenHunter · 23 Feb 2020

Why would you have a total destruction order on a 313 anyway? They're not F-14 Tomcats.

Bletchleyite · 23 Feb 2020

StephenHunter said:
Why would you have a total destruction order on a 313 anyway? They're not F-14 Tomcats.

Quite. I could understand the yard deciding it was not worth their while for them to allow people in because the cost/H&S risk outweighed the income. But I can't for a moment understand why the TOC would give a monkeys' as seems to be being suggested, other than a specific anti-enthusiast view.

Ashley Hill · 23 Feb 2020

Wasn't there some clause in steam days that a breaker was not allowed so sell on a loco that they had bought for scrap? IIRC it was soon lifted. Perhaps a competitor could buy a 313 from a yard and return it to service?

Bletchleyite · 23 Feb 2020

Ashley Hill said:
Wasn't there some clause in steam days that a breaker was not allowed so sell on a loco that they had bought for scrap? IIRC it was soon lifted. Perhaps a competitor could buy a 313 from a yard and return it to service?

What for? They are old and knackered.

Ashley Hill · 23 Feb 2020

Who knows, but that thought could equally apply to any class. That's the only reason I could think of for applying such an order.

IamTrainsYT · 23 Feb 2020

Wasn’t 41001 bought from a scrapyard?

GlitterUnicorn · 23 Feb 2020

StephenHunter said:
Why would you have a total destruction order on a 313 anyway? They're not F-14 Tomcats.

I know they're sometimes used to stop life expired or dangerous components from entering the black market, or otherwise accidentally being reused.

Not entirely sure what parts on an old train would fall into that category though?

Owning a part of a pacer (or any other train for that matter)

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