Unless you know what class it is or spot the pantograph what makes it clearly electric?
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter pemma
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Both those things really. As an interested observer I just know that no other type of train has an end shaped like that....that the gap in the roof is where a pantograph sits and that there are no 4 coach diesel units. Of course if you're a passenger with no interest then it's quite possible that you don't even know what an electric train is.
Especially if you travel from Burscough bridge!
Bornin1980s
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Who instructs the instructors?
Yes there are, class 168 (run by Chiltern) and class 220 and 221 (run by Cross Country). There may be other examples too.
You're right of course. I meant to say there are no 4 car diesel units of the general mark 3 coach shape.
I don't have experience of the 168's but the Voyagers have obvious exhaust vents along the roofline, which would be clear from a similar positioned photo, yet they are not clear to see on the 769 in the photo.
I assume that this is down to the fact that you can't go cutting large holes without weakening the structural integrity of the vehicle.
The exhausts on 769s are in a similar position to those on 15x units.
As for who instructs the instructors, the project managers will usually come up with resources to train a driver manager, and pass them as competent to the satisfaction of the relevant ops standards managers/procedures. There's a driver manager at my depot who's been passed competent on 769s for a couple of years or more now.
The driver manager can then train the instructors who will train the drivers as necessary. The initial bit is the most awkward bit as it's non-standard, once the initial driver manager is competent the rest is all standard stuff.
As for who instructs the instructors, the project managers will usually come up with resources to train a driver manager, and pass them as competent to the satisfaction of the relevant ops standards managers/procedures. There's a driver manager at my depot who's been passed competent on 769s for a couple of years or more now.
The driver manager can then train the instructors who will train the drivers as necessary. The initial bit is the most awkward bit as it's non-standard, once the initial driver manager is competent the rest is all standard stuff.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Oh well, can rule out the HSTs then as they are more than four coaches in length !. But yes seeing the unique front end of a 319 away from the juice might seem odd.
Fair play
… (grasps at straws: 2x 150/2 coupled together 
— but yes, the 319 has a very distinctive front end, clearly, …
Bob Price
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Another tweeted picture
https://twitter.com/PacerPreacher/status/1229801399946547200?s=09
https://twitter.com/PacerPreacher/status/1229801399946547200?s=09
769 442 worked 3Z52 from Springs Branch today and was 1 minute early at Southport, where I saw it arrive in platform 6 at 14:46; but Real Time Trains shows that it returned 107 minutes later than booked. The (2-car) 15:17 to Alderley Edge was in its platform but cancelled because of high winds, so was this also the reason for the delay to the 769?
johnpeter3
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There was a tree down at Parbold apparently
Jozhua
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Ahh yes, but my point was that should you go up to mindbending speeds of 30, possibly 35mph in this part of the country, the track will probably give way and the train will go flying into a ditch. The emergency services will then take 10-12 hours just to arrive, although I believe they have somewhat lighter wooden carts these days!
One thing I do wonder with the 769 project is how long these are expected to be in service for. It'd be pointless to go to all this effort for less than 10 years of use, especially considering the building and testing has been going on for at least that amount of time
Grannyjoans
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The project took much longer than expected. The 769 Flex was meant to be in service at the start of the May 2018 timetable on all Wigan NW to Alderley Edge & Stalybridge services.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Anyone have any knowledge of when we can expect to see these in service?
anthony263
Established Member
Think northern and tfw expecting them in service from May.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Well I do hope so. Only two years late! Getting rid of the pacers on my line has been a great improvement, but the 150s are sometimes still short formed to 2 cars and are a big fall in standard compared to the regular 323 services we had. Still, a 319 is not too bad (not great), yet 4 cars is not enough.
Given their age and the reliability and performance limitations of the base 319s I’m less than enthused by the prospect of these things. However beggars can’t be choosers and they can’t come quickly enough. There seems to be a dire shortage of stock from Southport currently.
The traincrew diagrams show them being worked from the end of March but that might be a bit optimistic, 200+ drivers and nearly as many guards need training before then.
markymark2000
On Moderation
How much traction training would be needed on these? Would it just be the drivers getting used to the BiMode as obviously some Northern staff already sign the 319s. Nothing should change really for the conductors and drivers will need to know about the engines and get used to the driving style of both overhead lines and diesel.
Jozhua
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How noisy are the 769's on diesel traction?
I think one of the 319's major benefits over the 150 interior wise is just less noise.
A nice interior refurb would help, but idk how much cost Northern will be willing to sink into units that may not see that many years in service.
By the way, are there any current plans to order bi-mode stock that might be able to replace these?
I think one of the 319's major benefits over the 150 interior wise is just less noise.
A nice interior refurb would help, but idk how much cost Northern will be willing to sink into units that may not see that many years in service.
By the way, are there any current plans to order bi-mode stock that might be able to replace these?
They should be somewhat quieter as the 769s' engines are of modern design compared to the 35-40 year old designs in Sprinters. Add to that the more efficient use of the engines' power in a diesel-electric transmission instead of the inefficient spinning of the torque converters with diesel engines better suited to small boats, at low speeds that 150s have to endure.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
However Voyagers and Meridians, with electric transmissions, are pretty noisy even when standing still. Hopefully a smaller engine not having to drive aircon (except on the GWR units) will be less so, even though it isn't shrouded.
samuelmorris
Established Member
So too are 180s and 185s with hydraulic transmission - the issue there is the QSK19 engine common to all of those units. Hopefully the engines used in 769s will be a bit quieter.
Mikey C
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As the 319/769s still rely on opening the window to get ventilation, I can't imagine they will be that quiet inside...
The quietest vehicle will be the ATS, with the only noise on that car itself being the MA set spinning and the main compressor running periodically. The PMS car on 319s is probably noisier than the general ambience on 15x units, especially at speed.