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Owning a part of a pacer (or any other train for that matter)

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Bantamzen

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Why on earth would they do that? The things aren't going to be allowed to run any more, it's not like they're trying to prevent someone buying them to run them in service in competition with them (as I believe was the case with Eurostar). It's almost like someone at a ROSCO or TOC just hates enthusiasts. Which isn't unlikely, sadly.

I don't imagine anyone would do something like this because they hate anyone. Far more likely is that someone got the brush off from the scrappers / ROSCO / TOC.
 
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xotGD

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Paint a piece of steel yellow. Buy some wheelie bin stick-on numbers. Job's a good'un.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Wasn’t 41001 bought from a scrapyard?
Quiet a few preserved diesels are scrapyard rescues... a few 50s for sure, as I remember being allowed to walk round Booths as a teen (mid 90s), and seeing a fair few of the "Project Collingwood" locos... some of which have since been restored.

It never occurred to me to take any souvenirs, and even the photos my brother and I took are probably still in the loft at our parents' place!
 

L401CJF

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Why would you have a total destruction order on a 313 anyway? They're not F-14 Tomcats.
I know they're sometimes used to stop life expired or dangerous components from entering the black market, or otherwise accidentally being reused.

Not entirely sure what parts on an old train would fall into that category though?
Not sure if the 313s are the same/similar in this regard, but I recall a few years back reading that the very similar 507/508s have asbestos in parts of the heating systems or something? I suppose this could be the reason, but a lot of trains scrapped before them also have parts made from asbestos as we all know it was used left right and centre in the last century.

Like I say, my friend got in touch with the leasing company over some parts and was told total destruction order, no chance. He then tried contacting the scrapyards directly and was given the same answer.

They still let people go round on Saturdays I think
haven’t tried myself as there were no more pacers left there when I came across the video. The numbers and seats were took off both 142s at booths although I’m not sure who would want the merseyrail seats

Not seen that video before, interesting to watch!
 

Ashley Hill

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I suppose if the TOCs say no and the scrappies then sold you the cabside on the sly,they could potentially end up in trouble should you try and resell it later.
It's a shame there's not a modern version of Collectors Corner. As for nameplates most TOCs sell them through specialist railwayana auctions for charity.
 

43096

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I suppose if the TOCs say no and the scrappies then sold you the cabside on the sly,they could potentially end up in trouble should you try and resell it later.
It's a shame there's not a modern version of Collectors Corner. As for nameplates most TOCs sell them through specialist railwayana auctions for charity.
With the exception of a very small number of fleets it’s nothing to do with the TOCs. The leasing companies are the owners and are free to put on whatever restrictions they feel appropriate when disposing of vehicles.
 

Bletchleyite

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With the exception of a very small number of fleets it’s nothing to do with the TOCs. The leasing companies are the owners and are free to put on whatever restrictions they feel appropriate when disposing of vehicles.

But why would they want to do this other than a dislike of enthusiasts? If parts can be sold off in excess of scrap value that is surely of benefit.
 

43096

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But why would they want to do this other than a dislike of enthusiasts? If parts can be sold off in excess of scrap value that is surely of benefit.
They are not set up as retail businesses to sell to the general public, with all the time and admin that goes with it. They get enough enquiries from time wasters as it is without encouraging more of it. In simple terms, they have better things to do with their time.
 

Bletchleyite

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They are not set up as retail businesses to sell to the general public, with all the time and admin that goes with it. They get enough enquiries from time wasters as it is without encouraging more of it. In simple terms, they have better things to do with their time.

I don't think you got my point.

This is the rolling stock's owner barring the scrapyard from selling components as part of the disposal contract. (If I'm reading it right).

Again, what reason would they have to do this? The yard can of course have whatever policy they wish.

It'd be like me having a contract with the Council to do specific things with my rubbish. I don't care what they do with it once it's handed over to them, all I want is rid of it. I fail to see why the owner of a piece of rolling stock should care about that either, they just want paying for its scrap value and it being taken away.
 
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Grumpy Git

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Well, a Mk1 in reasonable order could be bought for around £1k in the late 70's and is now worth £10k+ so it might not make too bad an investment if you can keep it somewhere cheaply.

..................................and I thought the neighbours were bad enough with their 25' caravan!
 

WesternLancer

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I don't think you got my point.

This is the rolling stock's owner barring the scrapyard from selling components as part of the disposal contract. (If I'm reading it right).

Again, what reason would they have to do this? The yard can of course have whatever policy they wish.

It'd be like me having a contract with the Council to do specific things with my rubbish. I don't care what they do with it once it's handed over to them, all I want is rid of it. I fail to see why the owner of a piece of rolling stock should care about that either, they just want paying for its scrap value and it being taken away.
It might be about letting this UK world beating tech get in the the wrong hands of overseas competitors....:smile:

I mean look at what has happened in Iran since they were sold those Pacers. The region is a lot less stable these days...
 
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I don't think you got my point.

This is the rolling stock's owner barring the scrapyard from selling components as part of the disposal contract. (If I'm reading it right).

Again, what reason would they have to do this? The yard can of course have whatever policy they wish.

It'd be like me having a contract with the Council to do specific things with my rubbish. I don't care what they do with it once it's handed over to them, all I want is rid of it. I fail to see why the owner of a piece of rolling stock should care about that either, they just want paying for its scrap value and it being taken away.
All kinds of reasons,

Getting rid of big assets like trains is a little different than the council taking away your rubbish. Rolling stock owners will want to know that their stock is responsibly and sustainably disposed of. So they will care about making sure that it's done in a way that minimises environmental damage and any risk to the health or safety of workers. They'll also expect the scrap yard to dispose of all hazardous materials legally and safely. There are also parts on the train that they don't want the public to obtain so they'll want to confirm that these parts are put beyond use. They're going to expect the yard to be accountable on this and might audit them to make sure it's being done properly.

Because of these conditions they might put a blanket ban on the sale of parts by the yard. Even if they didn't, lots of small requests for parts or components (or worse, letting enthusiasts take what they want) becomes a total headache. It's hard to be accountable for what happens to the waste and ensure that it's responsibly handled if you're selling it on piecemeal to just about anyone.

Selling an enthusiast a couple of seats or a few door handles for £20 is more trouble than it's worth.
 

Bantamzen

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All kinds of reasons,

Getting rid of big assets like trains is a little different than the council taking away your rubbish. Rolling stock owners will want to know that their stock is responsibly and sustainably disposed of. So they will care about making sure that it's done in a way that minimises environmental damage and any risk to the health or safety of workers. They'll also expect the scrap yard to dispose of all hazardous materials legally and safely. There are also parts on the train that they don't want the public to obtain so they'll want to confirm that these parts are put beyond use. They're going to expect the yard to be accountable on this and might audit them to make sure it's being done properly.

Because of these conditions they might put a blanket ban on the sale of parts by the yard. Even if they didn't, lots of small requests for parts or components (or worse, letting enthusiasts take what they want) becomes a total headache. It's hard to be accountable for what happens to the waste and ensure that it's responsibly handled if you're selling it on piecemeal to just about anyone.

Selling an enthusiast a couple of seats or a few door handles for £20 is more trouble than it's worth.

You only need watch a couple of TOC social media feeds to know that there are some enthusiasts who natter them just for the location of certain units, so I can only imagine what nattering the TOCs / ROSCOs / Scrappers get for bits of old trains. As you say there may be environmental reasons, it might be the logistics of it, or simply that its not worth their while. What it will not be is someone at a TOC / ROSCO specifically stating that bits should not be sold on to enthusiasts because said companies hate them, that's just a silly RUK conspiracy theory.

Of course we do know that at least one of the scrapping companies has representation on here, or at least is aware of these forums, so whose to say that they aren't now quietly storing up such national treasures as Pacer seats, unit numbers & destination blinds for some future online auction. Just this thread alone might just help up the price. I know I'd be doing it in the light of this.... ;)
 

Grumpy Git

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I have this horrible image of dying and spending an eternity in limbo sitting on a Pacer.

I bet I'd get given the seat nearest the doors, just so it would be extra draughty?
 

Bletchleyite

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I have this horrible image of dying and spending an eternity in limbo sitting on a Pacer.

I bet I'd get given the seat nearest the doors, just so it would be extra draughty?

They're the best seats, infinite legroom, and when you were a kid you could pretend to be the guard using the door buttons.
 

xotGD

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I have this horrible image of dying and spending an eternity in limbo sitting on a Pacer.

I bet I'd get given the seat nearest the doors, just so it would be extra draughty?
In heaven there are 37s on Mark 1s.

In hell there are Merseyrail 142s.
 

ChilternTurbo

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I managed to obtain a Pacer blind box with the blind in situ about ten years ago. One of my favourite pieces of railwayana. I'm quite tempted by one of those blinds...
 
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