Medical Emergency on 1S36, but train leaves anyway

LancasterRed · 24 Feb 2020

Hey all,

Just got off 1S36 Birmingham New Street - Edinburgh on my usual Preston - Lancaster (LAN) commute. Before LAN I noticed we came in faster than usual (this may have just been how it felt, given I wasn't in my usual carriage) and the call went out for a doctor. Police on the station were informed and to my knowledge boarded but I noticed the train leave LAN. Surely with the hospital around the corner it would be more practical to stay in LAN?

I'm not trying to knock Avanti by any means, but I am interested in knowing if this was the right thing and if this could have been handled better.

For reference: 1S36

RailUK Forums

Malcolmffc · 24 Feb 2020

Without knowing the nature of the incident or the treatment, it’s impossible to say. How do you know the patient didn’t leave the train at Lancaster?

306024 · 24 Feb 2020

I’m sure those dealing with the incident would know the best course of action rather than a bunch of people sitting on a keyboard, but perhaps I’m about to be proven wrong

LancasterRed · 24 Feb 2020

Malcolmffc said:
Without knowing the nature of the incident or the treatment, it’s impossible to say. How do you know the patient didn’t leave the train at Lancaster?

Good point and one I didn't consider.

306024 said:
I’m sure those dealing with the incident would know the best course of action rather than a bunch of people sitting on a keyboard, but perhaps I’m about to be proven wrong

Good job nobody's blaming them then! But being able to have a discussion about policy can only serve to inform.

Brissle Girl · 24 Feb 2020

LancasterRed said:
Good point and one I didn't consider.

Good job nobody's blaming them then! But being able to have a discussion about policy can only serve to inform.

Possible, but with a paucity of concrete information it’s a fairly academic discussion.

ainsworth74 · 24 Feb 2020

Brissle Girl said:
Possible, but with a paucity of concrete information it’s a fairly academic discussion.

I'm not sure that's a reason not to have it? We might not be able to answer exactly what happened in this specific incident but I'm sure we can address what should happen in general when it comes to passenger being taken ill on a train?

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2020

If they found a doctor, or there were paramedics on the station who would be more relevant than police, then perhaps they were quickly able to assess that the passenger was able to be moved and got them onto the platform for further assistance. I'm not a medic but I imagine that if there was a risk to a passenger from walking that short distance, they probably wouldn't be capable of walking anyway (eg unconscious or in severe pain).

Bantamzen · 24 Feb 2020

ainsworth74 said:
I'm not sure that's a reason not to have it? We might not be able to answer exactly what happened in this specific incident but I'm sure we can address what should happen in general when it comes to passenger being taken ill on a train?

There probably won't be a "what should happen" per say, every incident will be assessed by the medical professionals at the time they reach the scene, or are advised of the situation.

edwin_m said:
If they found a doctor, or there were paramedics on the station who would be more relevant than police, then perhaps they were quickly able to assess that the passenger was able to be moved and got them onto the platform for further assistance. I'm not a medic but I imagine that if there was a risk to a passenger from walking that short distance, they probably wouldn't be capable of walking anyway (eg unconscious or in severe pain).

I'm pretty certain that the train would not be moved if the person requiring medical attention was deemed incapable of being moved, or indeed continuing their journey.

ainsworth74 · 24 Feb 2020

Bantamzen said:
There probably won't be a "what should happen" per say, every incident will be assessed by the medical professionals at the time they reach the scene, or are advised of the situation.

Hence why I said in general

hwl · 24 Feb 2020

Could it just have been someone not having the right ticket and which upon being quoted the full ticket price lead to a few heart palpitations? From which they usually recover?

Clip · 24 Feb 2020

Of course it could just be a false alarm

PHILIPE · 24 Feb 2020

Bantamzen said:
There probably won't be a "what should happen" per say, every incident will be assessed by the medical professionals at the time they reach the scene, or are advised of the situation.

I'm pretty certain that the train would not be moved if the person requiring medical attention was deemed incapable of being moved, or indeed continuing their journey.

Some years ago a passenger was taken ill at Cardiff Central on a Valley train in the evening peak. The Ambulance service said he shouldn't be moved until the paramedics arrive with the resultant delay to the train. However, one passenger was shouting at staff to lift him out and lay him across a seat on the platform as he wanted to get home.

SPADTrap · 24 Feb 2020

I see a lot of pressure on train crew to get ill passengers off trains, to keep them moving and reduce delays and trapped trains, even where this is inappropriate and dangerous. It is a difficult balance but there is definite pressure there to leave people on platforms as they wait for help. Talk to any crew you see around the railways and you'll hear stories/experiences. I have a few but its not appropriate to discuss in a public forum but safe to say the decisions made above my head were dangerous...

Bletchleyite · 24 Feb 2020

In most cases it won't be dangerous, at least provided the station has an indoor area with seating. Spinal injuries are the main reason not to move a casualty, and I can't imagine many of those happen on trains, given the almost complete lack of scope to fall from height, though I suppose a standee could fall awkwardly.

I would imagine, though, that if the casualty is unconscious or finds it difficult to walk beyond the level of someone who would normally receive assistance but without a wheelchair, they'll stay on board until the ambulance arrives.

SPADTrap · 24 Feb 2020

Pretty meaningless. The most common injury I've seen like that are injuries accosiated with falling due to fits or other events like that, which in the elderly is common and something I've dealt with. Each case is different and I get its rare but in any case, moving someone without any knowledge of their ailment if nothing else looks distasteful and isn't a situation crew would put themselves in.

Just one of those things.

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2020

Bantamzen said:
I'm pretty certain that the train would not be moved if the person requiring medical attention was deemed incapable of being moved, or indeed continuing their journey.

Absolutely agree, at least with the first part. But there are plenty of possible afflictions where someone isn't fit to continue the journey but can walk a few steps, possibly with assistance, to get onto the platform. In fact I think many would offer to do this to avoid inconveniencing everyone else. My point was that someone in that situation is unlikely to do themselves more harm by taking those few steps.

SPADTrap said:
Pretty meaningless. The most common injury I've seen like that are injuries accosiated with falling due to fits or other events like that, which in the elderly is common and something I've dealt with. Each case is different and I get its rare but in any case, moving someone without any knowledge of their ailment if nothing else looks distasteful and isn't a situation crew would put themselves in.

Indeed, if someone has fallen and is partially or totally unconscious most people wouldn't want to move them without medical advice, particularly if they don't know what medical conditions that person suffers from (a companion might know this and what is safe to do of course).

Medical Emergency on 1S36, but train leaves anyway

LancasterRed

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Malcolmffc

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306024

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LancasterRed

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Brissle Girl

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ainsworth74

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edwin_m

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ainsworth74

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hwl

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