Thoughts on Compartments

yorkie · 23 Feb 2020

Those who dislike compartments are best not going to various European countries where it's the norm and should stay at home and only travel on boring trains in the UK

I particularly enjoyed a journey where we were able to have the lights off and windows open on a compartment. The knowledge that certain individuals would be very unhappy at our enjoyment of the situation only made me enjoy it even more!

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Bletchleyite · 23 Feb 2020

yorkie said:
I particularly enjoyed a journey where we were able to have the lights off and windows open on a compartment. The knowledge that certain individuals would be very unhappy at our enjoyment of the situation only made me enjoy it even more!

In Germany I found that lights off, door shut, window all the way down pretty much ensured a compartment to myself.

bramling · 23 Feb 2020

yorkie said:
Those who dislike compartments are best not going to various European countries where it's the norm and should stay at home and only travel on boring trains in the UK

I particularly enjoyed a journey where we were able to have the lights off and windows open on a compartment. The knowledge that certain individuals would be very unhappy at our enjoyment of the situation only made me enjoy it even more!

There was a bit of friction as the most recent Severn Valley diesel gala, as you had the diesel bashers going round with windows open mixing with the elderly clientele out for a ride on a steam railway. One is always going to be onto a loser turning up at a diesel gala and expecting windows to be closed, especially near the front of the train. One couple parked themselves in one of the front carriages and went round closing every window that didn’t have a head leaning out of it, which needless to say was poorly received.

I think they gave up in the end as later I saw the same couple (presumably on their way back to Kidderminster) in a compartment, naturally with everything sealed tightly closed.

Ultimately compartments can serve to keep more people happy, so from that point of view I tend to think they’re a good thing.

gazthomas · 24 Feb 2020

I'm just back from Morocco and I'd happily take an open carriage over a compartment. Phew!

James James · 24 Feb 2020

There may be quite a few compartments in Eastern Europe left, but I was under the impression that they are on their way out - albeit at different speeds depending on country and operator?

bunnahabhain · 24 Feb 2020

andythebrave said:
Strictly speaking it was a 4 berth couchette but as we were all up all night....

Many moons ago I travelled from Vilnius to Kiev overnight and was allocated a berth in a compartment with:
1. A Red Army colonel
2. A travelling salesman
3. A farmer's wife
Fortunately, the military chap had a copious supply of ale and we spent the following 16 hours in a most convivial way.
Compartments are great if you have the right mix but the likelihood of that happening here is more remote than it is elsewhere.

That reminds me of a trip from Roma Termini to Palermo Centrale, we had a compartment of six, my partner and I alone until Napoli Centrale where an elderly Italian gent who couldn't speak English boarded. Not wanting to spend the journey in silence or let us miss any of the sights of his country he pointed out the sights of the country, a particular highlight being as we travelled around Vesuvius to the East on the high speed line he gave a physical and audible demonstration of the volcano just so that we definitely knew it was something special. It was a shame to see him go at Lamezia!

route101 · 24 Feb 2020

Non Multi said:
SWT 1st class compartments on the 442s? Used until withdrawal of the units in 2007.

Interesting , i did not realise they had them. Was it a small section?

GlitterUnicorn · 24 Feb 2020

route101 said:
When did the last compartement stock run in UK? Third rail MK1s ?

As a follow on to that, did any of the Virgin trains or Caledonian Sleeper Mk2s ever have compartments?

Mikey C · 24 Feb 2020

yorkie said:
Those who dislike compartments are best not going to various European countries where it's the norm and should stay at home and only travel on boring trains in the UK

Predominantly older stock though? The vast majority of stock built in the last 30 years has open saloons

Islineclear3_1 · 24 Feb 2020

route101 said:
Interesting , i did not realise they had them. Was it a small section?

When new, one driving coach of each set had first class compartments - almost throughout, with a public telephone at the vestibule end.

My memory is faded now: I can't remember if it was compartments throughout (the driving coach) or if there was a small-bay saloon kitted for first as well behind the driver

Mogz · 24 Feb 2020

hwl said:
Passenger safety...
You may not remember the incidents that led to these lessons being learnt.

I recall those incidents related to compartments with no side corridor.

Mogz · 24 Feb 2020

Mikey C said:
Predominantly older stock though? The vast majority of stock built in the last 30 years has open saloons

Not all older stock at all.

Even the latest German ICE’s have a few available for those who prefer them.

hwl · 24 Feb 2020

Mogz said:
I recall those incidents related to compartments with no side corridor.

Circa 50% of the population (that seems to be under represented on railforums) still really dislike compartments for personal safety reasons.

DfT has a very large body of knowledge on personal safety and perception of personal safety hence compartments won't be returning.

They also more space inefficient which is a big problems given crowding in the UK and dwell times are also more critical than ever.

Bletchleyite · 24 Feb 2020

GlitterUnicorn said:
As a follow on to that, did any of the Virgin trains or Caledonian Sleeper Mk2s ever have compartments?

No, they've always been opens. The last compartment Mk2s I recall were the fresh-air ones on the North Wales Coast, which were technically first class but a polite word with the guard almost always resulted in permission to sit there.

Mogz · 24 Feb 2020

bramling said:
Problem is that doesn’t resolve the last bit of what I posted, namely that you know they will then inevitably make you out as the bad guy and thus ensure your journey is unpleasant. Having said that, life experience has found some gentle mitigations to this!

I’ve seen that happen with tables too, especially on XC trains where they’re at a premium.

That said, as a Father, if I’m travelling solo with a table all to myself (more common on other operators than XC!) I will always offer it to a family or group rather than wait to be asked.

I also appreciate the same when travelling with my brood. I think to offer is the modern “done thing” but no-one should ever be so impolite as to demand the same, and even asking is a bit cheeky.

Mogz · 24 Feb 2020

James James said:
There may be quite a few compartments in Eastern Europe left, but I was under the impression that they are on their way out - albeit at different speeds depending on country and operator?

I’ve travelled on some trains on the continent which seem to have been built very recently, though I concede they might have just been very well refurbished.

On the Berlin-Warsaw express, most 2nd class seating was in 3-a-side compartments, whereas First Class was 2+1 open saloon!

I was impressed that each compartment it was possible to control the heating, the lighting and even the volume of the announcements from a control panel above the compartment door. The seats each had individual reading lights and plug/USB sockets.

The six hour journey was also made even more pleasant by the train having a well stocked buffet and a restaurant car with good food at very reasonable prices.

That is why as a regular user of XC, both for long and short journeys, I get so worked up about the poor conditions compared to those available on the continent.

Bletchleyite · 24 Feb 2020

4-a-side in Polish stock, grim beyond belief.

James James · 24 Feb 2020

Mogz said:
Even the latest German ICE’s have a few available for those who prefer them.

Not really: the ICE 4's have some family/children compartments, but no regular compartments. (And you're not going to be popular if you try sitting in one of those as a lone adult, especially if male.)

Mogz · 24 Feb 2020

James James said:
Not really: the ICE 4's have some family/children compartments, but no regular compartments. (And you're not going to be popular if you try sitting in one of those as an adult, especially if male.)

As a Father to two small children, I would be very much more popular using that than trying to keep them happy and quiet in 2+2 airline seats on XC!

Perhaps a couple of pre-bookable family compartments (prerequisite that you are travelling with at least one child under 7, say), would make life better for parents and other travellers alike.

I must have been thinking of the ICE3’s.

ajrm · 24 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
No, they've always been opens. The last compartment Mk2s I recall were the fresh-air ones on the North Wales Coast, which were technically first class but a polite word with the guard almost always resulted in permission to sit there.

There were air-conditioned compartment Mark 2Ds as well, though (FKs and BFKs).

Bletchleyite · 24 Feb 2020

ajrm said:
There were air-conditioned compartment Mark 2Ds as well, though (FKs and BFKs).

Not come across any of those, but none of them ever operated under the Virgin Trains franchise.

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2020

Mogz said:
I’ve seen that happen with tables too, especially on XC trains where they’re at a premium.

That said, as a Father, if I’m travelling solo with a table all to myself (more common on other operators than XC!) I will always offer it to a family or group rather than wait to be asked.

I also appreciate the same when travelling with my brood. I think to offer is the modern “done thing” but no-one should ever be so impolite as to demand the same, and even asking is a bit cheeky.

I'm usually travelling alone on business and using a laptop, which needs a table on most trains but becomes more difficult if surrounded by a family of three and even worse if it's a group of four and one of them ends up sat nearby and talking loudly with the others. Courtesy and self-interest both dictate that I offer them the table and find somewhere else to sit.

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Not come across any of those, but none of them ever operated under the Virgin Trains franchise.

I think their last vaguely front-line useage was on the Carstairs splitters, where the vagaries of portion working often put them in the middle of the set and compartments reduced the disturbance to First Class passengers from passing plebs. These workings ended before franchising, with IC adopting non-portion working with short sets and re-building open Firsts with micro-buffets.

Bletchleyite · 24 Feb 2020

edwin_m said:
I'm usually travelling alone on business and using a laptop, which needs a table on most trains but becomes more difficult if surrounded by a family of three and even worse if it's a group of four and one of them ends up sat nearby and talking loudly with the others. Courtesy and self-interest both dictate that I offer them the table and find somewhere else to sit.

Depends on the train. I'm presently sat using a laptop in a priority airline seat on a 350/2, but it would be impossible to use it in a normal seat (or indeed to fit me in at all other than sideways) or in any non-priority or non-table seat of a Pendolino.

The answer to this is really more tables.

swt_passenger · 24 Feb 2020

Journeyman said:
The two 4-CIGs on the Lymington branch survived a bit longer - 2010, I think. They were the last.

Yes, they had about half a coach of 3 or 4 compartments at one end of the train. The “compartment” nearest the cab was full width and included the train doors and a door to the passageway through the first area, it was standard class.

The yellow line in this photo suggests from the number of windows it was three first and one standard.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...er.JPG#/media/File:1498_at_Lymington_Pier.JPG

It’s almost 10 years since they finished, doesn’t time fly...

ajrm · 24 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Not come across any of those, but none of them ever operated under the Virgin Trains franchise.

Correct.

61653 HTAFC · 24 Feb 2020

DerekC said:
There is the old story of the vicar who always got a compartment to himself by leaning out at stations (with dog collar on display) and smiling and beckoning to people on the platform!

Reminds me of the old joke about guaranteeing nobody sits next to you... as they walk down the aisle, make eye contact, smile enthusiastically, and pat the seat cushion next to you! :lol:

ainsworth74 · 24 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
About half a coach of 3 or 4 compartments at one end of the train. The “compartment” nearest the cab was full width and included the train doors and a door to the passageway through the first area, it was standard class.

The yellow line in this photo suggests from the number of windows it was three first and one standard.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...er.JPG#/media/File:1498_at_Lymington_Pier.JPG

It’s almost 10 years since they finished, doesn’t time fly...

Now I'm not expert on Southern Region rolling stock classifications but that's definetly not a 442! :lol:

swt_passenger · 24 Feb 2020

ainsworth74 said:
Now I'm not expert on Southern Region rolling stock classifications but that's definetly not a 442!

I think I’ve replied to the wrong post... :oops:

I’ve fixed it now...

Nick_C · 24 Feb 2020

Most Polish intercity trains have some compartments - with mostly rather nice modern stock (Aircon, electric doors etc) - the intercity website even makes a point of the fact you have a choice between compartment and open stock. They also have excellent (and cheap) restaurant cars.

There is some older stock still around, but mostly cascaded onto the lower-cost TLK trains.

Thoughts on Compartments

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