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Hull Trains 802: Construction updates

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samuelmorris

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Nice pic!

Anyone have any info on 305?
The performance of the Paragons has been pretty good so far. 305 cd spend alot of its time not needed in service! Any info on future plans for Hull Trains? Article in recent edition of Rail hinted at operating new routes.
Not how the unit allocation is likely to work - simply that one unit will sit spare for a while, it won't always be 305!
 
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DannyMich2018

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802305 should be here soon I'd imagine as it's been well over a month since 304 arrived in the UK. Has 304 been accepted for service yet?
 

humbersidejim

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Nice pic!

Anyone have any info on 305?
The performance of the Paragons has been pretty good so far. 305 cd spend alot of its time not needed in service! Any info on future plans for Hull Trains? Article in recent edition of Rail hinted at operating new routes.

Most likely the extra unit will allow ten car running for some peak services, as has been occasionally done with class 180s.
 

NSVX

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Nicely enough I recently saw an 802 graciously exiting the Northern Hadley Wood tunnel. It looked majestic and the livery is extremely slick. Have heard a few noises regarding the ordering of more units from Eversholt as the procurement process is now much simpler and streamlined since exiting the EU.
 

samuelmorris

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Nicely enough I recently saw an 802 graciously exiting the Northern Hadley Wood tunnel. It looked majestic and the livery is extremely slick. Have heard a few noises regarding the ordering of more units from Eversholt as the procurement process is now much simpler and streamlined since exiting the EU.
I find that difficult to believe, nothing's actually changed yet! If they ordered more units, what would they be used for? Is there demand for 10-car services?
 

rustbucket

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If they ordered more units, what would they be used for? Is there demand for 10-car services?

A number of HT services are regularly full & standing including pretty much all day every weekend so could well believe there is justification in more
 

Peter Bonner

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I find that difficult to believe, nothing's actually changed yet! If they ordered more units, what would they be used for? Is there demand for 10-car services?
Another issue with a two set service wd be that the platform at Beverley is not long enough. Lock out one set north of Hull or add/detach one at Hull?
 

Clarence Yard

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Nicely enough I recently saw an 802 graciously exiting the Northern Hadley Wood tunnel. It looked majestic and the livery is extremely slick. Have heard a few noises regarding the ordering of more units from Eversholt as the procurement process is now much simpler and streamlined since exiting the EU.

It’s utter wibble. HT are not considering ordering any more new units and until UK Law is changed, the usual procurement rules apply for anyone wanting new stock.
 

samuelmorris

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Are these 802s faster than the 180s or about the same? I only ask as could we see some slight journey time improvements.
They will be faster when on electric but slower on diesel - the areas where quick acceleration will really be required will be on the diesel section so I doubt there is any real improvement to be had. Maybe a minute or two between Grantham and Doncaster but that'll be about it.
 

markymark2000

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They will be faster when on electric but slower on diesel - the areas where quick acceleration will really be required will be on the diesel section so I doubt there is any real improvement to be had. Maybe a minute or two between Grantham and Doncaster but that'll be about it.
Interesting. 2 minutes can be the difference sometimes for people when planning journeys. Thanks
 

class26

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They will be faster when on electric but slower on diesel - the areas where quick acceleration will really be required will be on the diesel section so I doubt there is any real improvement to be had. Maybe a minute or two between Grantham and Doncaster but that'll be about it.

Out of interest a couple of weeks ago I did Kings X to Grantham in 57 minutes on the 20.30 ex Kings X (800)

Remember that once the throat at the Cross is cleared, speed limits are considerably higher and sooner so given the 800`s acceleration there must be a couple of minutes to come there ?
 

samuelmorris

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Out of interest a couple of weeks ago I did Kings X to Grantham in 57 minutes on the 20.30 ex Kings X (800)

Remember that once the throat at the Cross is cleared, speed limits are considerably higher and sooner so given the 800`s acceleration there must be a couple of minutes to come there ?
180s aren't exactly slow though, they would out-accelerate the loco-hauled stock LNER have been using. Also bear in mind there aren't any stops for HT services between Kings Cross and Grantham so the only time gained is that one acceleration leaving London and that's it.
 

D365

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It’s utter wibble. HT are not considering ordering any more new units and until UK Law is changed, the usual procurement rules apply for anyone wanting new stock.

Thank you for clearing that up. Especially as NSVX's claim is rather unsubstantiated.
 

class26

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180s aren't exactly slow though, they would out-accelerate the loco-hauled stock LNER have been using. Also bear in mind there aren't any stops for HT services between Kings Cross and Grantham so the only time gained is that one acceleration leaving London and that's it.

Fully take your point re Grantham being first stop etc. The fastest i have done Kings X to Grantham on a 180 is 59 minutes which was a completely clear run.
Have you seen a speed profile of Kings X throat once the work is complete ? It must save 2 minutes for all electric services I would think.
There is no 15 mph crawl (pointwork will be 25 ) and then straight to 55 mph and then by the end of Copenhagen tunnel 80 mph.
 
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westv

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They will be faster when on electric but slower on diesel - the areas where quick acceleration will really be required will be on the diesel section so I doubt there is any real improvement to be had. Maybe a minute or two between Grantham and Doncaster but that'll be about it.
An eventual 6 minute reduction in Hull to London journey times was claimed when the Paragons were first announced.
 

Brissle Girl

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6 mins will mean nothing to most people! What matters is whether they run or not and on time.
You could say that about any journey time improvement suggested, so it’s not a reason not to aspire to cut journey times.

As to whether 6 mins is realistic? As well as the faster departure from KX, every time the speed limit steps up heading North it will be quicker to get to the new limit, and that includes the handful of places where the limit drops down below 125. And the departures from Grantham and Retford will be quicker too. (And Doncaster too if the services stay on electric until Shelby, which RTT suggests is the case.)

Looking at the 2030 there is currently 4 min of allowance as far as Doncaster as well, which could offer further scope, although that would be at the expense of performance reliability.
 

samuelmorris

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Is one of the most counter-productive arguments when it comes to transport.
The way I'd like to counter it would be. 'You have to sit in 6 minutes of extra traffic a day on your road commute. You know it'll always be 6 minutes, so it's predictable, but you still have to sit in it regardless'. Not having to do that would still sound like a compelling proposition, no?

What's the reason for building Crossrail? It's not to give people a comfy seat instead of the tube, as they're not getting one! It's mostly to reduce journey times (and perhaps convenience of fewer changes, but that is itself a journey time saving).
 

Peter Bonner

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Is one of the most counter-productive arguments when it comes to transport.
I stand by my comment. Ask fellow passengers/customers and I think they will agree with me. Survey evidence suggests this is the case-see recent issues of Rail magazine for confirmation of this.
 

samuelmorris

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I stand by my comment. Ask fellow passengers/customers and I think they will agree with me. Survey evidence suggests this is the case-see recent issues of Rail magazine for confirmation of this.
and you know what they say about surveys - a certain yes minister clip comes to mind..
 

westv

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When I see the results of surveys online or on TV I always wonder to myself "What exactly was asked?" and "Would the peòple who published it have an agenda they may wish to push?"
 

D365

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I stand by my comment. Ask fellow passengers/customers and I think they will agree with me. Survey evidence suggests this is the case-see recent issues of Rail magazine for confirmation of this.

One of Henry Ford’s old comments comes to mind... if railway engineers shared this same view, we’d still be running Class 47s across half the network.

In any case, despite electrification to Hull having been dropped, the Class 802s represent clear progress in every aspect - technically at least.
 

Peter Bonner

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One of Henry Ford’s old comments comes to mind... if railway engineers shared this same view, we’d still be running Class 47s across half the network.

In any case, despite electrification to Hull having been dropped, the Class 802s represent clear progress in every aspect - technically at least.
And progress in terms of punctuality and reliability(so far), precisely the thing that passengers want most!
 
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