Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

Skip 10 · 22 Feb 2020

WRXBID said:
How did you find the regular path? I've been checked RTT for a while, not a lot seems to be coming out of Long Marston or Honeyborne North junction.

I was shown it at the time, wish I'd paid more attention to the head code as I can't find it myself now.

Be aware, anything going to Cardiff from Long Marston will most likely be a 153. The 230s will be heading north. Certainly wouldn't expect to see a TfW move this month at least.

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Bob Price · 22 Feb 2020

I look at Honeyborne and select detailed. The paths are there most weeks but not always used.

WRXBID · 22 Feb 2020

Tweet says battery test train. But it was my understanding it is the test bed for the hybrid system. Although non of the TfW units have made an appearance it encouraging to see 002 out again.

D365 · 22 Feb 2020

WRXBID said:
Tweet says battery test train. But it was my understanding it is the test bed for the hybrid system. Although non of the TfW units have made an appearance it encouraging to see 002 out again.

As I understand it, 002 has had a intermediate diesel trailer* car added in order to convert it to a specification equivalent to the upcoming TfW units.

* trailer, in so far as the intermediate cars are not motored.

WRXBID · 22 Feb 2020

The middle car has all 4 diesel engines underneath, whilst the 2 DMs have 2 rafts of batteries each.

The Twitter user who posted the image said he didn't believe the engines were on at the time. 002 can run 30 miles between charges so engines don't always need to be on. But I'd be interested to see if Vivarail are testing all the functions of the hybrid system, which includes stop and starting the engines frequently as they will be turned off at certain stations. Or are Vivarail simply testing the capabilities of batteries alone.

D365 · 23 Feb 2020

WRXBID said:
The middle car has all 4 diesel engines underneath, whilst the 2 DMs have 2 rafts of batteries each.

Correct, I’ve got a diagram showing this somewhere but would need to dig it out.

The Twitter user who posted the image said he didn't believe the engines were on at the time. 002 can run 30 miles between charges so engines don't always need to be on. But I'd be interested to see if Vivarail are testing all the functions of the hybrid system, which includes stop and starting the engines frequently as they will be turned off at certain stations. Or are Vivarail simply testing the capabilities of batteries alone.

The idea is that the engines will be turned off at most (maybe all) stations. Batteries will be used for regenerative braking and to accelerate up to about 30mph, at which point the engines will kick in. I’ve previously described these units as behaving like a “Prius on rails”.

Roger B · 23 Feb 2020

So is 002 still kicking around? Is there anywhere I might catch it this week (other than Long Marston)?

Bob Price · 23 Feb 2020

Search on Realtime trains at Honeyborne about 10 on Tuesday onwards. The paths are there but no guarantee it will run.

WRXBID · 23 Feb 2020

Roger B said:
So is 002 still kicking around? Is there anywhere I might catch it this week (other than Long Marston)?

About 5 or 6 runs out to Moreton-in-marsh over the last 2 weeks. Usually Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurs. Paths usually appear on Real Time Trains Sunday/Monday

Roger B · 24 Feb 2020

WRXBID said:
About 5 or 6 runs out to Moreton-in-marsh over the last 2 weeks. Usually Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurs. Paths usually appear on Real Time Trains Sunday/Monday

Thanks WRXBID. So not venturing up to Wrexham just yet.

jimm · 24 Feb 2020

Roger B said:
So is 002 still kicking around? Is there anywhere I might catch it this week (other than Long Marston)?

If a 230 comes out of Long Marston, the test runs take place between Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham West junction.

The paths appearing on realtimetrains does not mean that anything will happen - sometimes just one trip from Long Marston to Moreton-In-Marsh to Evesham West and back to Long Marston is made out of the four paths available.

Last week 230002 only appeared on Wednesday and Thursday, doing two runs on Wednesday and four on Thursday.

Roger B · 24 Feb 2020

jimm said:
If a 230 comes out of Long Marston, the test runs take place between Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham West junction.

The paths appearing on realtimetrains does not mean that anything will happen - sometimes just one trip from Long Marston to Moreton-In-Marsh to Evesham West and back to Long Marston is made out of the four paths available.

Last week 230002 only appeared on Wednesday and Thursday, doing two runs on Wednesday and four on Thursday.

Thanks Jimm. Might it venture Wrexham way in preparation for running on the borderlands line, or will VivaRail use one of the new units (006 - 010?) for this - with/without a touch of razzamatazz and dry ice?

WRXBID · 24 Feb 2020

Roger B said:
Thanks Jimm. Might it venture Wrexham way in preparation for running on the borderlands line, or will VivaRail use one of the new units (006 - 010?) for this - with/without a touch of razzamatazz and dry ice?

It unlikely 002 will make an appearance on the Wrexham-Bidston line. TfW have very close control of the project and will not want a prototype making the 230's debut. It's more likely there will be some sort of photo opportunity with a fully completed 230 and Ken Skates before the first TfW branded 230 headsnorth for testing.

Bob Price · 24 Feb 2020

002 will probably head for Barry when the testing moves there.

krus_aragon · 24 Feb 2020

Bob Price said:
002 will probably head for Barry when the testing moves there.

I'd not seen anything about testing 230s in Barry?

Bob Price · 24 Feb 2020

krus_aragon said:
I'd not seen anything about testing 230s in Barry?

Vivarail announced a few months back that they were moving the factory to Southam and using the Barry heritage line for testing.
https://vivarail.co.uk/from-southam...-vivarail-continues-to-expand-its-operations/

krus_aragon · 24 Feb 2020

Bob Price said:
Vivarail announced a few months back that they were moving the factory to Southam and using the Barry heritage line for testing.
https://vivarail.co.uk/from-southam...-vivarail-continues-to-expand-its-operations/

I tihnk I missed the little snippet aout Barry back when I originally read that. Thanks for referring me back to it.

Roger B · 25 Feb 2020

Bob Price said:
002 will probably head for Barry when the testing moves there.

Thanks Bob. I'll keep checking the 230 threads for any further news.

Neen Sollars · 25 Feb 2020

I would imagine the first train on long term test at Barry would be the hydrogen four car unit. I would also think the TfW 230`s are still at Long Marston as is 230002. I would guess the first trains being refurbished at Southam would be the class 484s for the Island Line. The TfW 230`s are nearly a year late, so should really have been completed prior to the move to Southam. I think 230002 has the same power configuration as the TfW fleet namely diesel/battery power. The end cars hold the batteries and the centre car the diesels. 230002 travelled 40 miles on battery power alone whilst on test on the North Cotswolds line, but it is the diesel cooling system that has bedevilled the Marston Vale 230`s. Given the length of time this is taking my guess is the diesel engine problems have not been properly solved.

Bletchleyite · 25 Feb 2020

Most cancellations on the Marston Vale over the past few weeks have been staffing rather than unit related, if that's of any help. Of course, they might restart once the weather warms up.

Neen Sollars · 25 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Most cancellations on the Marston Vale over the past few weeks have been staffing rather than unit related, if that's of any help. Of course, they might restart once the weather warms up.

B. Good to know, but I pity the long suffering PX. Yes the warm weather and the pollen clogging the air filters, that was the main problem and we have to wait three months to see if it is finally sorted. However I would expect the Wales government would want a cast iron guarantee the 230`s are reliable before they accept them.

D365 · 25 Feb 2020

Neen Sollars said:
I would imagine the first train on long term test at Barry would be the hydrogen four car unit.

I wasn't aware that Vivarail were developing a four car unit.

I think 230002 has the same power configuration as the TfW fleet namely diesel/battery power. The end cars hold the batteries and the centre car the diesels.

Correct, as I discussed earlier. A diesel trailer car was added to 230002 last year.

Neen Sollars · 26 Feb 2020

The hydrogen unit will be four car.

https://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-spearheads-development-of-green-fuel-technologies/

Announced a long time ago and yet to appear. The test train will be a two car, one under slung with batteries the other with hydrogen

Vivarail very quiet publicity wise at the moment so I expect a news rush soon.

D365 · 27 Feb 2020

Neen Sollars said:
The hydrogen unit will be four car.

https://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-spearheads-development-of-green-fuel-technologies/

Announced a long time ago and yet to appear. The test train will be a two car, one under slung with batteries the other with hydrogen
Vivarail very quiet publicity wise at the moment so I expect a news rush soon.

Right, I must have missed that particular detail of the announcement then. They’ve got enough centre cars spare, since the Marston Vale and Island Line units aren’t using any.

Don’t forget that funding for the hydrogen project had only been confirmed during the summer of 2018. So this was the earliest point at which that they would have been able to start any kind of research or development. Off-topic for the Wales units obviously but there isn’t much point in a dedicated thread until Vivarail makes their next public announcements.

Roger B · 3 Mar 2020

Does anyone know how many 230 diagrams there are expected to be on the Borderlands services following the May timetable change? And how likely is it that there will be sufficient units and trained drivers and train crews to operate them?

krus_aragon · 3 Mar 2020

Roger B said:
Does anyone know how many 230 diagrams there are expected to be on the Borderlands services following the May timetable change? And how likely is it that there will be sufficient units and trained drivers and train crews to operate them?

The first question is how many 230s will be ready by then. Following on from that, the original plan was to increase service frequency from December 2021, so there won't be more than two diagrams of any variety until then (unless plans change and are accelerated).

My personal expectation is that both diagrams will still be operated by 150s in May, and that the 230s will be substituted in, as and when they're ready.

craigybagel · 3 Mar 2020

krus_aragon said:
The first question is how many 230s will be ready by then. Following on from that, the original plan was to increase service frequency from December 2021, so there won't be more than two diagrams of any variety until then (unless plans change and are accelerated).

The plan also assumed that the 230s would initially be shared between Bidston, Blaneau and Crewe - Chester, meaning there wouldn't be enough available at first to improve the timetable on the Bidston route. It is appearing less likely now that this will happen, as there are numerous reasons why the 230s may not end up working on these other routes.

My personal expectation is that both diagrams will still be operated by 150s in May, and that the 230s will be substituted in, as and when they're ready.

I would put money on that being the final outcome alright.

Roger B · 3 Mar 2020

craigybagel said:
The plan also assumed that the 230s would initially be shared between Bidston, Blaneau and Crewe - Chester, meaning there wouldn't be enough available at first to improve the timetable on the Bidston route. It is appearing less likely now that this will happen, as there are numerous reasons why the 230s may not end up working on these other routes.

I would put money on that being the final outcome alright.

Thanks krus_aragon abd craigybagel. So it's felt that it's most likely the borderline will get the 230s first, with them being phased in instead of 150s leading up to the Dec 2020 timetable change. And it's also questionable whether they will deployed on the Blaneau and Crewe/Chester services in the mid-term - or even ever. What are the main reasons for not using 230s on the other routes - and do they effect the Crewe/Chesters more than the Blaneaus - for which I'd have thought they'd be a pretty good fit?

Bob Price · 3 Mar 2020

Wasn't the issue with the Conway Valley something about they didn't fit?

krus_aragon · 3 Mar 2020

Bob Price said:
Wasn't the issue with the Conway Valley something about they didn't fit?

No, not as far as I know.

I reckon it's more that Network Rail are dragging their heels and/or revising their cost estimates for the work to clear all the new units for service; see the delay in getting the MkIVs cleared for operation on the Marches, for example. If NR are charging more for that work, then TfW may reconsider whether they also want to spend money on getting the 230s cleared for routes where they'll only operate for a year or two anyway. Dropping those routes means the overall work can stay within budget.

There's more detail in the thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/welsh-fleet-deployment-programme-rationalised.201307/

Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

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