Issued a Penalty Fare Notice. What is this?

Caught an early cross-country service from Birmingham to Bristol earlier this month. Couldn't get through the ticket barrier to exit the station. Turns out I had picked-up an old ticket on my dash out of the house, leaving the correct tickets in the kitchen drawer. Was waved through the barrier at Birmingham and the train conductor even stamped my invalid ticket! But at the other end in Bristol, a uniformed official wearing a body-cam wrote me a Penalty Fare Notice on an A5 piece of paper (£75) before they let me through. I have 21 days to pay she told me. But in my haste and stress to get to work on time, I've somehow lost it. I thought I'd of had a follow-up letter or something, but nothing. It's been almost 3 weeks. Any suggestions or advice on what might come next?

Kind regards
leedbow

Are you sure ot was a Penalty Fare? Did you give your accurate name and address?

CrossCountry does not operate a Penalty Fare scheme.

Not clear how they'd get to £75 for a PF anyway. Or indeed for anything else!

The "basic" PF is £20. Twice the Off Peak Single (if that was relevant) is £118.60, or twice the Anytime Single £125.

Nothing I can see is £75!

Fares: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=BHM&dest=BRI

No idea. She argued on me for ages because she couldn't find me on the electoral roll (...because I'm not on the electoral role, which she found suspicious) and even threatened to have me arrested. Not the most sociable of people! I think that once her power trip was satisfied she grew bored with me. Then slowly scribbled lots down on a big thick A5 notepad, tore off the top copy and kept the duplicate, then told me that I had 21 days to pay the £75 or appeal.

Figures aside, if it's not a Penalty Fare, any idea what it might be (...since I've lost it) and what I might need to do?

It could be an Unpaid Fare Notice, but £75 isn't a fare for the journey you made so I'm really confused.

As they work for GWR it might be worth getting in touch with their Prosecutions Department[1] perhaps?

[1] I'm not saying you are being prosecuted, doesn't sound like you are, but it'll be the same people dealing with that I reckon.

Sounds like an unpaid fares notice (UFN).

Since I've stupidly lost the flimsy piece of paper she gave me, I can't be certain what it was. Or the exact figure that I had to pay. I'm unfamiliar with an Unpaid Fare Notice, but if that's the closest thing to identifying what it could be, then at least I can Google and find out what trouble I might be sailing into next week. I imagine that the lady with her body cam and lack of social skills could perhaps be employed by any part of the rail industry rather than the actual train company I travelled with?

Was it an Unpaid Fares Notice? For either £62.50 or £59.30?

leedbow said:

k. I imagine that the lady (...) could perhaps be employed by any part of the rail industry rather than the actual train company I travelled with?

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If I have understood things properly, this was at Temple Meads; the gateline there is staffed by GWR. So in the first instance, they are the people to contact.

As Great Western are the lead operator at Temple Meads, I think it is most likely to be them. However, I wouldn't really expect them to be issuing an unpaid fares notice on behalf of CrossCountry, so it isn't clear cut.

Haywain said:

As Great Western are the lead operator at Temple Meads, I think it is most likely to be them. However, I wouldn't really expect them to be issuing an unpaid fares notice on behalf of CrossCountry, so it isn't clear cut.

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AIUI many stations have an agreement for one TOC to handle such matters on behalf of all of them, so it's quite possible that they might.

I'm still confused how they get to £75. It's neither a fare from Brum to Bristol nor double one. Are they now issuing "penalty fake" admin fees at the point of being caught or something?

But yes, I would suggest the OP getting in touch with GWR in the first instance.

Bletchleyite said:

AIUI many stations have an agreement for one TOC to handle such matters on behalf of all of them, so it's quite possible that they might.

I'm still confused how they get to £75. It's neither a fare from Brum to Bristol nor double one. Are they now issuing "penalty fake" admin fees at the point of being caught or something?

But yes, I would suggest the OP getting in touch with GWR in the first instance.

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There must be some XC agreements with local TOCs, or else with no station staff XC would have a lot of fares leakage; if any time someone got to a ticket gate or manned barrier they would be passed through with no questions...

Bletchleyite said:

I'm still confused how they get to £75. It's neither a fare from Brum to Bristol nor double one. Are they now issuing "penalty fake" admin fees at the point of being caught or something?

But yes, I would suggest the OP getting in touch with GWR in the first instance.

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Problem is that the OP has admitted that they cannot remember exactly how much they were asked to pay. See post #7.

Just to clarify, Bristol Temple Meads is managed by Network Rail but is primarily staffed by GWR (gateline, dispatch, ticket office etc all GWR).

An Unpaid Fare Notice can be issued by any TOC for any TOC on the National Network if it's for a journey that's already been made, they cannot issue it if it is for a journey that hasn't been completed yet (unless it's part way through the journey and the remainder of the journey is with the TOC that is issuing the UFN) so if it is a UFN GWR are permitted to issue it in this instance.

It's most likely that it is a UFN that's been issued here unless you were interviewed under caution?

If you go to GWR.com/revenueprotection there should be contact details there.

Hope this helps

A big thankyou for those contributing to this thread. The time and effort that you have invested is greatly appreciated. But it seems that I'm in double trouble. A unpaid fare notice and the new discovery that not ever having registered on the electoral roll is an offence (I don't have a mobile phone either or a credit card or a passport or a driving license). On a brighter note though, I take some solace in making it a trifle more difficult for a Terminator from the future to hunt me down.

Not being on the electoral roll may be a civil offence, but it is not a criminal offence.

Councils send out an annual canvass to every address, where someone in control of that address must respond giving the names of people who are entitled to register. It is a criminal offence not to respond to this truthfully. However, if the time for the next canvass has not yet come and you have not received one, no offence is committed by not volunteering the information.

When the annual canvass is returned to the council, it will identify whether any individuals named, who are entitled to register, are not registered. Under the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013 Section 5, the Electoral Registration Officer must then invite those people to register, and the ERO may impose a deadline by when they must register, and if they fail to register by the given deadline then the ERO may impose a civil penalty.

If someone responds untruthfully to the annual canvass, and as a result a different individual who is entitled to register is not known to the Electoral Registration Officer and therefore not invited to register - then an offence is committed by the person who provided the false information, but no offence is committed by the person who has not registered.

You can of course register to vote voluntarily without being invited to register, and if you provide false information that is a criminal offence.


The electoral rolls are held by each council. The full electoral roll is available to financial institutions such as banks and insurers, and other organisations including political parties, government departments and TOCs that want to confirm the existence of names and addresses provided by possible fare evaders. I believe it is possible for anyone to view the full electoral roll in person at council offices, but am not sure.

The edited roll which is opt-in is available to commercial organisations for advertising and research purposes.

You can register online at any time and the GOV.UK website claims it takes around 3 minutes. I believe all the website does is send a message to the relevant council as per the post above.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/individual-electoral-registration

leedbow said:

No idea. She argued on me for ages because she couldn't find me on the electoral roll (...because I'm not on the electoral role, which she found suspicious) and even threatened to have me arrested. Not the most sociable of people! I think that once her power trip was satisfied she grew bored with me. Then slowly scribbled lots down on a big thick A5 notepad, tore off the top copy and kept the duplicate, then told me that I had 21 days to pay the £75 or appeal.

Figures aside, if it's not a Penalty Fare, any idea what it might be (...since I've lost it) and what I might need to do?

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Just as an aside, you may not be aware, but it is also an offence to not be on the electoral roll (apart from a few exempt categories - but you then have to register those categories with your local council's elections office). It would be in your interest to sort this out and get on the electoral roll.

I have moved some posts which are regarding the electoral roll issue, to : https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...suggest-an-offence-has-been-committed.201306/

leedbow said:

A big thankyou for those contributing to this thread. The time and effort that you have invested is greatly appreciated. But it seems that I'm in double trouble. A unpaid fare notice and the new discovery that not ever having registered on the electoral roll is an offence (I don't have a mobile phone either or a credit card or a passport or a driving license). On a brighter note though, I take some solace in making it a trifle more difficult for a Terminator from the future to hunt me down.

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When you have a response/outcome please do come back on here and let us know as this helps us to advise on future cases