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Future of Wrexham-Bidston line, inc. possible franchise swap etc.

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Teithiwr

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50165268
Thirteen railway stations stretching from north Wales to Merseyside will benefit from a £280,000 revamp, Transport for Wales (TfW) has said.

The Welsh Government-owned train operator said the cash was being spent on the Borderlands line between Wrexham and Upton in Wirral.

It is part of a £194m improvement programme for all 247 TfW sites across Wales and the Borders stations.

Work on the Borderlands stations is due to start at the end of the month.
Long over due investment in station improvements announced today as well - planned to coincide with new rolling stock which seems a positive step.

Moderator note: please discuss suggestions and ideas in the following thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-service-on-the-wrexham-bidston-line.194321/ ; there is a great discussion there which we are very keen to encourage, but it does need to be in the relevant forum section please, thanks! :)

This thread is for updates regarding what is actually happening.
 
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sw1ller

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Well, looks like the near future is 153’s. there’s been a single 153 and a double 153 on timing runs today.
 

VT 390

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I know why the line is going to have 153's for a while but surly they will only add to delays on the line as they have narrower end doors.
 

sw1ller

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I know why the line is going to have 153's for a while but surly they will only add to delays on the line as they have narrower end doors.
Exactly. Just look at the Crewe - Shrewsbury shuttle. That’s ok as the bulk of people want Nantwich. But if there’s a busy service for Liverpool passengers, all the other stations are going to suffer. I can see us over carrying as people can’t get off. What’s worse too, ive just been told the single 153 run was much quicker than the double 153 run! Which is very surprising but will mean TfW will be much more happy to run single if they need the other units.
 

L401CJF

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"Improvement" works have begun at Neston Station this week, there's a guy there as we speak painting the Arriva colours Black.
 

rich.davies

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"Improvement" works have begun at Neston Station this week, there's a guy there as we speak painting the Arriva colours Black.
So are they ditching the colour schemes at stations that still have the Red, Green and creme lamposts like they have at Caergwrle Station? Some stations have a dark blue too.

They never went to Arriva colours at the time i don't think either.
 

L401CJF

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So are they ditching the colour schemes at stations that still have the Red, Green and creme lamposts like they have at Caergwrle Station? Some stations have a dark blue too.

They never went to Arriva colours at the time i don't think either.
I'm not too sure, I would imagine eventually . I was at Shotton earlier and they don't seem to have done anything there yet. At Neston so far they've painted the advert boards black and the railings up the stairs. The lamposts at Neston have recently been replaced with new silver ones with LED lights, so have Heswalls. The old lights used to go off about 30mins after last train, whereas these new ones do sometimes, other nights they stay on until the morning, and other nights they don't come on at all!
 

hobbm013

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Wrexham Bidston rail users association reporting on Facebook that 150s will be kept rather than being replaced by 153s
 

L401CJF

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Following previous comments about accuracy of passenger numbers on this line, I've used the train from Neston 4 times in the last couple of week, no record of 3 of those journeys as I've not bought a ticket, no sign of any conductor. One of the journeys I was taking to Liverpool on the first Bidston bound service of the day so had to buy my ticket at Bidston. Plenty of passengers on board also having to queue at Bidston to buy their tickets, good job it wasn't late as plenty would have missed the Liverpool connection! As much as a free journey is a nice surprise every so often, it is worrying to think how frequently this happens and how inaccurate the figures must be. More frequent ticket checks would be nice or some ticket machines at the stations, especially for those who could miss a tight connection at Bidston if its late arriving as is often the case.
 

craigybagel

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Following previous comments about accuracy of passenger numbers on this line, I've used the train from Neston 4 times in the last couple of week, no record of 3 of those journeys as I've not bought a ticket, no sign of any conductor. One of the journeys I was taking to Liverpool on the first Bidston bound service of the day so had to buy my ticket at Bidston. Plenty of passengers on board also having to queue at Bidston to buy their tickets, good job it wasn't late as plenty would have missed the Liverpool connection! As much as a free journey is a nice surprise every so often, it is worrying to think how frequently this happens and how inaccurate the figures must be. More frequent ticket checks would be nice or some ticket machines at the stations, especially for those who could miss a tight connection at Bidston if its late arriving as is often the case.

There was an issue in the last month with the 150s where the guards have been unable to operate the doors from the intermediate panels, making it a lot harder to do revenue on routes like Wrexham and Bidston where the stops are frequent.
 

anamyd

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There was an issue in the last month with the 150s where the guards have been unable to operate the doors from the intermediate panels, making it a lot harder to do revenue on routes like Wrexham and Bidston where the stops are frequent.
I heard about that, but on the Cardiff Central valleys platforms
 

craigybagel

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I heard about that, but on the Cardiff Central valleys platforms

The problem was with the 150s specificallyn rather then the routes, but it is true it would have been a big problem on the Valleys as well as Wrexham - Bidston. Most other routes give sufficient time to carry out revenue duties throughout the train despite being tied to the front or rear most crew door, but it would certainly be more of a challenge on those routes.
 

anamyd

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Were the intermediate panels non-functioning post-PRM mods or something...?
 

craigybagel

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Were the intermediate panels non-functioning post-PRM mods or something...?

Something along those lines alright. There was an issue with some of the panels on some of those units. It's in the process of getting rectified if it hasn't been completed already....
 

anamyd

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Something along those lines alright. There was an issue with some of the panels on some of those units. It's in the process of getting rectified if it hasn't been completed already....
I see, thanks :)
 

Tomos y Tanc

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From a Welsh Governement oral statement in the Senedd today.

"Now, the spine of our metro in north Wales will be a major upgrade of the Borderlands line to offer turn-up-and-go services from Wrexham, and through working with Merseytravel, deliver services all the way through to Liverpool. We will develop our key hubs, for example at Shotton, to provide an interchange between rail services, as well as integrated bus services across our regional hubs. To effectively deliver integrated, attractive services across the north Wales coast and the Borderlands line, we need new all-stop commuter services to complement faster long distance services running on an upgraded, electrified mainline."

Make of it what you will!

https://record.assembly.wales/Plenary/6258#A56458
 

sdrennan

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Well it needs something sorted as service is us usable in my view. My daughter lives 5 minutes from one of the stations but interchange times are shocking.
I am visiting and then travelling to Birmingham for a day trip. Have to be collected at Chester as interchange times mean a 40 minute wait
When going to Birmingham I have to get lift to Wrexham as first train south is far too late.
Return trip from Birmingham has either an interchange time at Wrexham of 100 minutes....Shotton has a very long interchange time too.

Also when buying tickets I find the line very expensive onward tickets and split ticketing is always needed.
 

kieron

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Ken Skates also needs the Welsh Government to be in control of all the levers necessary to deliver a fully integrated transport system.

I don't think any of the things he said they will actually do (in relation to North Wales, anyway) are new.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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If the words used mean what is intended then it suggests to me that they envision an electrified Borderlands line with trains running through to Liverpool with a frequency of at least 15 minutes. If that happens then it will be a huge step.

How would the required extension of the existing 3rd rail system needed to facilitate this be viewed by "official railway bodies"?
 

krus_aragon

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If the words used mean what is intended then it suggests to me that they envision an electrified Borderlands line with trains running through to Liverpool with a frequency of at least 15 minutes. If that happens then it will be a huge step.
My impression was that the reference to "an upgraded, electrified mainline" was about the coast line, i.e. reminding Whitehall etc. they still want it electrified at some point. There's nothing explicit about motive power on the Borderlands, just the "through services" bit.

Like kieron, I don't see anything there that hasn't been mentioned before.
 
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mrd269697

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Apart from Deeside Parkway, a station I would very strongly recommend is Prenton.

My reasoning is:
- There is a large distance between Upton and Heswall
- It lies right off a motorway Junction
- near to a major hospital
- serves a large suburb of Birkenhead
- serves the Woodchurch Estate
- serves the Durley trading estate
- is situated on a major bus route artery
- there is plenty of land near where a large park and ride facility could be built

I feel a station here, with a half hourly service mind you, would see a few hundred thousand passengers per annum.

The line suffers from a massive lack of funding however.
 

D365

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How would the required extension of the existing 3rd rail system needed to facilitate this be viewed by "official railway bodies"?

Third rail extension would not be required. The Class 777 units are capable of operating on overhead electrification or potentially even battery power.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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Apart from Deeside Parkway, a station I would very strongly recommend is Prenton.

My reasoning is:
- There is a large distance between Upton and Heswall
- It lies right off a motorway Junction
- near to a major hospital
- serves a large suburb of Birkenhead
- serves the Woodchurch Estate
- serves the Durley trading estate
- is situated on a major bus route artery
- there is plenty of land near where a large park and ride facility could be built

I feel a station here, with a half hourly service mind you, would see a few hundred thousand passengers per annum.

The line suffers from a massive lack of funding however.

Where exactly would you have it? You have Rock Ferry and Green Lane less than a mile apart and you want to put another station in-between? 3 x stations in less than a mile? The platforms would almost be touching each other.
 

krus_aragon

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Where exactly would you have it? You have Rock Ferry and Green Lane less than a mile apart and you want to put another station in-between? 3 x stations in less than a mile? The platforms would almost be touching each other.
The OP said between Upton and Heswall, so, on the Borderlands line?
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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The OP said between Upton and Heswall, so, on the Borderlands line?


Ah yes, makes a little more sense, but would need a much better service to be of any sort of use an hourly service would just mean people would continue to use the Wirral line on Merseyrail
 
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