Windymoors
On Moderation
Don't worry about the selection process- 99% are in it for the money....
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Been trying to get a job in the rail industry for a year: is it worth it?
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Don't worry about the selection process- 99% are in it for the money....
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Windymoors
On Moderation
Exactly!
Windymoors
On Moderation
I’m inclined to echo what others have said here. I’m still a trainee driver but from what I’ve seen so far, it’s a great job to get and do, but at the same time very restrictive. I’m my previous job (still on the railway), I worked a 4 day week (37hours, 9h15m shifts every time). Although the shifts were long in comparison to a lot of driver shifts, I worked a 4 week roster and knew exactly where I was in terms of shift patterns etc. The money was good (£35k ish) and I could basically do what I wanted as I was in charge. Train driving in comparison and compared to a lot of other jobs on the railway is very structured. There’s often decent rest periods and PNBs, but you can’t ‘be late’ or be flexible with it. I guess that’s one reason why the railway is so keen on non-technical skills in their drivers.
Do I miss it? Yes, a bit.
Would I chuck this in and go back? 100% not.
Im under no illusion that driving is a walk in the park, and the training itself takes its toll certainly. There’s been times I’ve wondered if it’s worth it, or indeed if I’m cut out for it. That’s natural. It’s a lot of work, but I was prepared for that. Roll on passout.
The training is the good bit...after 6/7 years- you'll be like everyone else..........washed out...
Windymoors
On Moderation
smart man.....
Windymoors
On Moderation
This is one of the smartest and most honest posts on here................... rose-tinted glasses for the rest!
Windymoors
On Moderation
In short - Yes
Mid range - Yes
Long term - Not so sure...
I was sick of my job, worked 60-70 hours a week, worked bank holidays, 5 day weeks, late nights, early mornings, total and utter grind for little recognition and bugger all pay. Pretty much, I needed to get out. Changed jobs, same brown stuff, different employer.
Then I joined the railway as a Driver....
What I have found is that my terms and conditions are so locked down tight and actually respected. I work a full week but I don't work the extra for nothing. I am not forced to do overtime and there is no pressure on me to go the extra mile for no reward. My working week pretty much halved and my stress level vanished. Most of all, I don't take work home with me (sorta). Not everywhere has a 4 day week and its taken most of my career to get here but a 4 day week is amazing. It's hard, but there are many advantages. Short term I was glad to get out and only saw the advantages. Including the huge bump in the pocket.
Then it all changed. The work is relentless at times and I have found that whilst I worked a 70hr week. A lot was downtime. Sitting about in the office, chatting in the staff room, breaks when I want, go for a pee when I want. The 'Railway' is very different. I might only have a 9hr shift but I'm working for pretty much all of that. Those T&Cs are great but they state I only get a 30min PNB and many diagrams literally have just that. Productivity is very high. You often come home completely drained, physically and mentally. I also found out quite early that you are only as good as your last trip. It's an industry with a shockingly high turnover of staff. As a Driver they kinda expect perfection 100% of the time. There is no tippex or delete button. Rules and regs are seriously tight and you are expected to be fully competent at all times. I've seen many people come and go. Job loss due to incident can be very detrimental. Shift work is a real killer. Granted there is a rough and smooth side but you need to face that reality. Not everyone can cope. I think a lot of people; especially on this forum; tend to romanticize 'The Railway' Sometimes the reality can be quite harsh.
15+yrs later...
I'm still here and still don't hate it. I've never really disliked what I do and never regretted it at all. I look back sometimes and see what I was doing and I could never go back. Sod commuting, sod the 9-5 and I don't get out of bed for less than £50k
Do your research. Remember there is as much negative as there is positive. Be realistic with your goals and be honest with yourself about what you want in life and what direction you wish to go in. Money is good. Enjoying what you do is much more important.
I wish you luck.
Another decent post of the reality...... many good points here......... the choice at the end of the day is simple: easy(ish) cash - social life destroyed OR work harder for the same or less cash- with the commute etc....evenings and weekends to enjoy yourself.....
This is a really intelligent post- and from the heart. The 'job is killing me slowly' is the most poignant part- because that's what the operational railway does....
Well that's their problem and not the fault of people doing certain jobs or wanting to carry out certain roles.
Do us a favour don't tell me what words to use as I'll use what I wish. And in that case I sincerely hope you're not a driver as you must have been walking around with your eyes closed and cotton shoved in your ears for the last 45 years! That word is used operationally at least daily across the entire network.
Taylor-j01
Member
I didnt think drivers were allowed to work 7 days in a row - Safety reasons
If you really are a driver, you’ve said many times how much you hate shift work, and how you think the job is “killing you slowly”. Maybe it’s time to seek alternative employment?! If you won’t, there must be something keeping you in the grade. Maybe it’s better than the alternatives open to you.
In which case, maybe you should do your messroom colleagues a favour, turn that frown upside down, stop moaning, and make the best of it.
Yep! That word is commonly used on all parts of the railway I’ve ever encountered...
Working for up to 13 consecutive days is permissible for safety critical roles, as per the “Hidden” regs.
T'was my quote that was quoteth.
Shift work is well known for its downsides. That is a reality that must be faced.
As a train driver , you can work 13 in a row.
If you really are a driver, you’ve said many times how much you hate shift work, and how you think the job is “killing you slowly”. Maybe it’s time to seek alternative employment?! If you won’t, there must be something keeping you in the grade. Maybe it’s better than the alternatives open to you.
In which case, maybe you should do your messroom colleagues a favour, turn that frown upside down, stop moaning, and make the best of it.
Yep! That word is commonly used on all parts of the railway I’ve ever encountered...
Working for up to 13 consecutive days is permissible for safety critical roles, as per the “Hidden” regs.
Yeah if it was phased out 45 years ago it's a bloody slow process given how often it's used.
Define "washed out" ?
You don't half like to speak a lot for others. Apparently you know "99% are in it for the money" and now everyone else is "washed out"
Where is your evidence of this? Yes as I've said myself it's far from a paradise but let's not make out it's the entrance to Hades! In most industries that have unsociable hours or politics involved it's obvious it's not going to be for everyone but it certainly doesn't mean it's a bad industry to work in like many of your posts are making out.
Maybe you should think about a change of career? Maybe one that doesn't have short hours with lots of time off? Maybe one which doesn't have security? Maybe one that pays just over minimum wage? Maybe one without union protection? Maybe one where you can do 60 odd hour weeks? Maybe one where you're not home in your own bed every night? Maybe one with a bog standard state pension?
See there's lots of options out there as these are the things that you're clearly advising others to strive for? Don't get me wrong I'd much rather happiness than a massive bank balance for example but different things make different people happy......I don't think very clouded, one sided and somewhat militant views like yours help or necessarily speak the actual reality.
Windymoors
On Moderation
I didn't dispute that the phrase is used daily, it's just SO Victorian!
Windymoors
On Moderation
In what way are my comments 'militant'? What a bizarre thing to say. I'm not advising anyone- it's just how it is... if the OP enters this 'grade' then they should know what they are in for.... if you were low-paid before, then yes, it's a step up. The smarter posts give the reality, this post tries to bury it....
Windymoors
On Moderation
Another smart, but ultimately ignored, comment.
Windymoors
On Moderation
If you really are a driver, you’ve said many times how much you hate shift work, and how you think the job is “killing you slowly”. Maybe it’s time to seek alternative employment?! If you won’t, there must be something keeping you in the grade. Maybe it’s better than the alternatives open to you.
In which case, maybe you should do your messroom colleagues a favour, turn that frown upside down, stop moaning, and make the best of it.
Yep! That word is commonly used on all parts of the railway I’ve ever encountered...
Working for up to 13 consecutive days is permissible for safety critical roles, as per the “Hidden” regs.
I think you've just contradicted yourself. Who on earth wants to work for 13 days in a row? That really is sweat-shop stuff. I didn't say I hate shift work, did I? I actually was not the one who said it was killing me slowly. Read back. What is keeping me in the 'grade' (ugh)- money. I'm not sure if you work on the railway, but a messroom in which people are not moaning? Please tell me the location of that depot, I'll take a transfer there! 'Make the best of it' - yep - man up, watch your life drift away and put a big smile on your face..... great advice.....
dctraindriver
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- 580
Your last three paragraphs are spot on for me. I’ll be absolutely honest having come from interacting with people all the time in my previous career to this is for me a blessing. I love being in my own company during my working week, still catch up on mess room banter and gossip but the peace is lovely. For me my wife talks at me at home so the solitary confinement at work is respite to my ears
However you have to be on the ball as some who feel isolated find their minds go into la la land.
Undiscovered
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I joined the railway 2yrs ago as a Guard. At the moment I love it. The wage is good, the shift pattern is ok- I get to do the school run a couple of times a week, and the job itself is great. Wouldn't change it and I see myself here for as long as I can be.
However, there are downsides. You have to be so self reliant and resilient- only you can make the safety critical decisions that need to be made to keep you and everyone on your train safe. Drivers will help or advise, but ultimately buck stops with you.
Lose focus at the wrong point, or make a mistake, it's a meeting with no tea or biscuits. Which is not good.
It's also lonely at times. I went from a busy office environment to getting on a train 15minutes after booking on, spending 5hrs without seeing any of my colleagues, apart from a nod to Drive as we swap ends. Depending where my break is, that might be an empty mess room too, then back out for another 3hrs. No opportunity to run ideas past anyone else, talk things through, share a joke or even admire the view with.
This was the most difficult thing I struggled with- took me a while to get my head around it. If I could, I chatted at the end of my shift for a few minutes, sometimes popped in the mess room on a day off to say hello. Helps put faces to names and makes the depot more 'real'. When it's busy though, the laughs and jokes are well worth it and it does feel like a family.
Shift work, and being we'll rested, doesn't always mean I can join the lads on a night out either, so it's really important to sort out something with friends to keep in touch.
It's a big adjustment, professionally and personally, but if you can strike tge right balance, it is a fantastic career with brilliant opportunities.
However, there are downsides. You have to be so self reliant and resilient- only you can make the safety critical decisions that need to be made to keep you and everyone on your train safe. Drivers will help or advise, but ultimately buck stops with you.
Lose focus at the wrong point, or make a mistake, it's a meeting with no tea or biscuits. Which is not good.
It's also lonely at times. I went from a busy office environment to getting on a train 15minutes after booking on, spending 5hrs without seeing any of my colleagues, apart from a nod to Drive as we swap ends. Depending where my break is, that might be an empty mess room too, then back out for another 3hrs. No opportunity to run ideas past anyone else, talk things through, share a joke or even admire the view with.
This was the most difficult thing I struggled with- took me a while to get my head around it. If I could, I chatted at the end of my shift for a few minutes, sometimes popped in the mess room on a day off to say hello. Helps put faces to names and makes the depot more 'real'. When it's busy though, the laughs and jokes are well worth it and it does feel like a family.
Shift work, and being we'll rested, doesn't always mean I can join the lads on a night out either, so it's really important to sort out something with friends to keep in touch.
It's a big adjustment, professionally and personally, but if you can strike tge right balance, it is a fantastic career with brilliant opportunities.
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You are not made to do 13 , you are legally allowed to do 13 . At my toc , there is a dedicated night link , so I don't do night's. I work six days in a row , once every eight weeks and I have every fourth week off . I do five day's in a row , four times in that eight weeks and three day's in a row twice. I absolutely love my job . In fact it's the first job in my life that I look forward to going to work and I actually miss it , if I'm off for too long . If a labourer or road worker etc and no dis respect to people doing these jobs , had ever said to me . Come to work with me for free and see what I do for a day , I would of refused. If a train driver had asked me that question , I would of jumped at the chance.
dctraindriver
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It’s in our T&Cs isn’t it? Moan and if nothing to moan about moan about that. I guess your direct responses have led to a couple who think you’re totally fed up with the role.
Like you no rose tinted specs, the shifts can be horrendous and even though you may have worked 6 very early shifts then 4 or 5 days off you may still feel jet lagged when your next set comes along.
Easy to go to bed at 8 PM in the winter if up at 3 AM but come summer time hurts like hell and the body will struggle to switch to night mode.
I’ve done shifts all my working life, less than 10 to go and managed it pretty well. I don’t feel it’s slowly killing me as comutr said but I totally respect the need to manage fatigue and nothing gets in the way of resting properly.
Some prospective trainees are in for a shock....
So what? Our entire network is pretty much Victorian but it doesn't stop modern trains running on it or stop it being a decent place to work.
Nothing is buried with any of my posts as you will see if you've bothered to read the earlier ones! The only thing I'm surprised isn't already buried is you given your obvious distain for the roles and industry in general! What a way to go to work every day....you must wish for death most days!
Plenty on this thread have given the realities of the roles/jobs/GRADES and industry in general on here it's just yours that seems to be the only ones that are clinging to the negatives like a Rottweiler. There's plenty of good reasons to join the industry aside from the only positive you see......the possible pay rise.
And to comment on one of your other posts. There's PLENTY that don't mind working 13 days on the bounce. Not everyone as you claim goes to work "just for the money" there's plenty out there that actually enjoy what they do and don't mind the environment.
It's interesting you used the word Victorian earlier as the way you're talking it's as if we go to the Victorian Mines, workhouses or get shoved up chimneys day in day out.
I kinda feel I need to qualify my statement. I thought my post was both realistic and positive. I like being a Driver and wouldn't ever go back to the normal daily grind. Without a doubt I feel its worth it. However, I am a realist. Shift work is notoriously hard on the body and mind. It can affect your social life and is a contributing factor in divorce.
You need to balance all the negatives and the positives and you need to take advantages where you can. I've got two kids and I've missed just as many occasions as I've gone to some. Telling a 10yr old that your going to miss sports day because you can't get a leave day or can't get a swap is heartwrenching. On the flip side, I also got to go on a couple of school trips because I've got a mid week day off. Not many Dads can say that. It takes a lot of effort, willpower and support from others to get through and I count myself one of the lucky ones.
I have had a couple of life changing events in the past couple of years and my job hasn't helped. In some respects its exacerbated various issues. I'm 16yrs in and I'm feeling it more than I ever have. I feel the need to be honest about that.
I'd never give it up. The scales still tip towards the positive and I still believe the railway offers one of the best work/live balances.
I've seen it happen. Thankfully most get through it.
Windymoors
On Moderation
Windymoors
On Moderation
hahahah- hmmm.... that defensive fury shows a weakness or unhappiness somewhere...I'm just pointing out the reality for the vast majority- I can't wish for death- because this is it! The industry is a fabulous one, but its not just about guards drivers and signallers- but this is essentially a blue-collar forum. I'm not interested in a pay rise- I'm well into 40% tax. There are NOT plenty that don't mind working 13 days in a row (what is 'on the bounce?) - they do it for one reason only- MORE CASH. Yep, there are a few that don't mind the filth and dirt and noise...sure...... Glad you picked up on my link with the Victorian Age- I thought it was perfectly obvious....
Windymoors
On Moderation
hahahahaha good point- however it is NOT a decent place to work!! Where on earth did you work before???????
No defensive fury or unhappiness here....I go to work happily and am more than content. Ah there's that closed mind of yours again rearing it's ugly head..... because someone is in a happy decent place it's automatically weakness in your eyes.....what a top fella you must be to sit next to In a mess room......I don't know what I'd reach for first if you came strolling in.....the door handle or the noose.
That's YOUR opinion and you've no evidence whatsoever to back up any of these ridiculous claims that you've shoehorned into your posts about the majority of the workforce either being miserable or money motivated.
Just so you know...... something isn't factual just because you think it may be, write it in a forum or say it out loud.
The above highlighted statement is so OTT I can’t work out whether you’re actually being serious, or simply trolling.
I don’t detect any “defensive fury” in the post you’ve quoted. The issue I have with your posts is that they paint an unrealistically negative picture, and purport to speak “for the vast majority”.
Quite the opposite! As a driver you do not speak for me, and your views are not reflective of the vast majority of people I have encountered in the grade.
Shift work has its downsides, and can be incredibly tough at times, but also has many positives. It’s telling that most people I’ve met in this industry, and indeed many contributors to this thread, have said wouldn’t go back to the kind of work they were doing before (and trust me when you’ve pulled all nighters in a corporate law sweatshop - and spent three days at work without sleeping during a closing - you start to see the value of a decently paid job with a 35 hour, 4 day week roster, albeit with some early starts and late finishes, and an absence of corporate BS).
The worst thing about this industry by far is the institutionalised bad apples in the messroom who drag everyone else down by moaning like hell about the downsides of the job (which nobody on here is denying), yet are happy enough to stick around for the pay, the time off, and the decent benefits.
If you really hated your job as much as you claimed, you’d simply leave! Or maybe you are one of those whose only doing it for the money?!
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