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Might GWR be persuaded to hold (selected) connections at Didcot?

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Nicholas43

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I do get it that holding connections can cause Disproportionate Repercussions Down the Line. However, could forum members advise on whether there is any hope of persuading GWR, in carefully considered instances, to hold Didcot to Oxford shuttles for up to (say) 5 minutes, in order to maintain a connection from the Main Line?
The example my wife and I recently experienced is 2L64, 2010 Didcot to Oxford. It provides a connection off 1G29, Paddington to Worcester. On 21 February 1G29 arrived at Didcot late, at 2009¼. My wife and I proceeded swiftly but carefully to platform 5, to see 2L64 leaving. A bit annoying for us, heading for Radley. Infuriating for the chap who sprinted ahead ahead of us up the stairs, to see the doors closing. He was headed for Appleford. I assume GWR will have had to arrange a taxi for him, at significant expense. For us, just a small Delay Repay.
2L64 has a well-padded timetable to Oxford, and it could (I think) leave Didcot at 2015 without delaying 1M74, the following Cross Country service to Manchester. (On 21 February, 2L64 did indeed reach Oxford early. Ironically, I think there was then some snafu at Oxford platform 4 which meant that GWR did delay Cross Country.)
As I understand it, drivers of the shuttles 'self dispatch' from Didcot platform 5. Would it be impracticable for a driver, in some instances, to check the customer information screen, see there's a late train about to arrive, and (more or less) tell Control (and the signalling centre?) that they are going to leave (say) 3 minutes late?
In the reverse direction, I have witnessed platform staff not dispatching an Up train from platform 2 on time, because they can see passengers off a late-arriving Oxford shuttle rushing up the stairs.
 
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30907

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There is a booked freight working (to Cowley) that follows the 2010 from Didcot - delaying that would affect the XC service.

More practically - how long should that connection be held for?
Should it be the 5 minutes allowed connecting time - and if not, what about the mobility-impaired customer who might need those 5 minutes...?

I don't know the answer BTW - but if there is a persistent pattern of delay and enough claims are made, GW might notice...
 

hwl

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There is a booked freight working (to Cowley) that follows the 2010 from Didcot - delaying that would affect the XC service.

More practically - how long should that connection be held for?
Should it be the 5 minutes allowed connecting time - and if not, what about the mobility-impaired customer who might need those 5 minutes...?

I don't know the answer BTW - but if there is a persistent pattern of delay and enough claims are made, GW might notice...

Just get the piling finished, masts up and good number of the Didcot-Oxford problems will evaporate.
 

Nicholas43

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There is a booked freight working (to Cowley) that follows the 2010 from Didcot - delaying that would affect the XC service.
Indeed. I see however that the freight runs as required, and stops at Didcot platform 3. It didn't run on 21 February.
 

Starmill

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In my experience it's close to impossible to persuade train operators to hold connections other than for the final service (and even then there's a chance they will decline). Successes aren't unheard of by any means, they're just rare.
 

Skipness

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yorkie

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GWR would rather pay for taxis than hold the train. The rail industry leaks money for reasons such as this, but it's taxpayers who foot the bill so that doesn't really matter to them.

The most important thing is to get an (empty) train away on time, even if it starts at a station where most people intending to board the train will be coming off a connecting service. This is to ensure the statistics are as good as possible for the operator.

The priority is avoiding delays to trains; avoiding delays to mere passengers is a secondary concern of some franchised operators.
 

sammyg901

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Chiltern Railways try to hold the Princes Risborough - Aylesbury shuttle (but can't hold the mainline coming the other way)

The wording is the timetable is

At certain times a shuttle train runs between Princes Risborough and Aylesbury. It will normally wait for late running trains from London and High Wycombe unless this will cause knock-on delays to other trains on the single line between Princes Risborough and Aylesbury

Been a number of years now but I had a mixed experience with this - the evening shuttle (in the "bubble" days) would wait as the guard easily realise if he was missing some of us if the train hadn't come in. But I had it on a Saturday afternoon where the DOO 165 pulled out just as we were coming over the bridge. But the ticket office always organised transport promptly - taxis from the local firm or one time they happened to have a bus available due to some earlier disruption. So rarely caused a long delay
 

221129

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In my experience it's close to impossible to persuade train operators to hold connections other than for the final service (and even then there's a chance they will decline). Successes aren't unheard of by any means, they're just rare.
It's not that rare, you just dont hear about them as much as you do ones that are declined.
 

mrcheek

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It's not that rare, you just dont hear about them as much as you do ones that are declined.

This is true. When connecting trains are held, as they often are, nobody is going to make a fuss on Twitter about it.

Ive known plenty of services to be held, even by different TOCs. Many times I have arrived into Bristol Temple Meads late in the evening, and a local stopping service is held for passengers arriving on a delayed XC service, and vice versa.

But they will only hold trains for a couple of minutes. They wont hold them while people meander down the platform assuming that the TOCs are running a taxi service. And theyre not going to hold a connection if there is another service shortly after it.
 

JN114

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But they will only hold trains for a couple of minutes. They wont hold them while people meander down the platform assuming that the TOCs are running a taxi service. And theyre not going to hold a connection if there is another service shortly after it.

Or if the operator doesn’t know there are passengers wishing to make the connection.
 

RLBH

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In my experience it's close to impossible to persuade train operators to hold connections other than for the final service (and even then there's a chance they will decline). Successes aren't unheard of by any means, they're just rare.
Of course, the 'last service' can be remarkably early in the day for some journeys once connections are taken into account. The last service from Plymouth to Kyle of Lochalsh is the 05:26, changing at Birmingham, Preston, Haymarket and Inverness. The connection at Birmingham New Street is 19 minutes; the minimum connection time is 12 minutes. If the CrossCountry service to Edinburgh is running more than 7 minutes late, the journey is compromised before the morning rush hour is over.

Granted, that's a rather extreme scenario: I picked Plymouth and Kyle of Lochalsh because they're the two furthest apart stations that might have a business need (naval personnel going to the Kyle of Lochalsh range) for travel. The same issue presents itself somewhat later in the day, but still potentially in the morning, for other long journeys. For one journey I've actually made - for the purpose of travel, not mere crankery - the last train is currrently at 11:54, with a critical connection to be made at 12:50.
 

Sleepy

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Here's a good !?! example, 2345 Paddington - Penzance sleeper this morning arrives at St Erth about 14 mins. late aprox. 0751 on platform 1. Meanwhile the St Ives branch train leaves on time from platform 3 at 0752 so despite a dash over footbridge all you get is to view the off indicator & signal changing back. Waiting 1 minute is unlikely to affect return journey from St Ives (which arrived back 2 mins. early) & it's a 30 minute wait to form next journey anyway. What's the point of Sleeper host asking about onward connections if the information is not acted on ?
 

ashworth

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I find it most frustrating at stations where it is a cross platform connection. Just as a train arrives and the doors open, passengers get off and hurry across to the adjacent platform to see the doors of their connecting train close in front of them and the train sets off leaving them with another hour to wait. Yes, it does happen, but again how long can the train be delayed as a few seconds can easily turn into a couple of minutes. It’s very annoying though when it does happen.
 

Nicholas43

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Here's a good !?! example, 2345 Paddington - Penzance sleeper this morning arrives at St Erth about 14 mins. late aprox. 0751 on platform 1...
Thanks for posting this example. Actually, I can see the case for not waiting (despite annoying passengers off the sleeper). The St Ives train gets only 2 minutes to reverse at St Ives. Back at St Erth, it provides connections to Penzance, and eastwards. Maybe sleeper attendants could be briefed not to raise false hopes?
 
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Very frustrating example at Derby - where the £200m upgrade in 2018 has had a negative impact on Matlock branch passengers.

With the connection onto the Main Line moved well north of the platforms, there have been a good number of occasions when the Matlock train has been sent out on time, only to sit at a signal as a late-running northbound XC train comes into Derby, disgorges passengers, then goes north on the main line. Passengers from the XC miss the (hourly) Matlock connection, which they could have caught if the Matlock train had been done in the station rather than at the signal. Passengers on the Matlock train don't get to Duffield or subsequent stations any earlier. But the Matlock train gets to leave Derby on time!

The least-unconvincing explanation I have been offered is that sometimes the platform is needed for another service - if true, this is pretty tragic: I could understand if this happened many years after a capacity upgrade, but it's hard to be impressed by seeing such a constraint on resilience immediately after a major redesign.
 

Weekender

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I find it most frustrating at stations where it is a cross platform connection. Just as a train arrives and the doors open, passengers get off and hurry across to the adjacent platform to see the doors of their connecting train close in front of them and the train sets off leaving them with another hour to wait. Yes, it does happen, but again how long can the train be delayed as a few seconds can easily turn into a couple of minutes. It’s very annoying though when it does happen.
This is a GWR speciality particularly at Didcot, although the wait for the next Oxford service is usually 30 minutes.
 

VT 390

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This is a GWR speciality particularly at Didcot, although the wait for the next Oxford service is usually 30 minutes.
Won't most passengers connecting to the Oxford service at Didcot be wanting the stations between Oxford and Didcot (as Oxford already has fast services direct to London) in which case it is often an hour or more until the next service.
Unless there are many passengers from the Swindon direction changing for Oxford?
 

Nicholas43

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...Unless there are many passengers from the Swindon direction changing for Oxford?
Yes, there are usually several, and often lots. On weekdays, it's usually arrive platform 2, scuttle via the subway to platform 5, watch people who had to use the lifts miss the connection.
 

Weekender

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Last autumn I changed from a Bristol train arriving on platform 2 to an Oxford train on platform 3, as the train stopped at the platform the Oxford train left. When I asked why the train wasn’t held I was told “the Oxford train left 5 minutes ago “ which clearly wasn’t true as we saw it depart. Another passenger was told “we can’t hold it as there’s a cross country train right behind it “ Realtime trains app confirmed that the cross country train had not left Reading at this point.
There was about 25/30 of us left behind.
I think its shocking that GWR train there staff to tell such blatant lies.
 
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