GlitterUnicorn
Member
CCTV - So that the day after you've been attacked or harassed it might be possible to download the footage and might just be possible to maybe trace the person who did it.......
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Thoughts on Compartments
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Journeyman
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Agreed, that's absolutely not the way to do things - design in security in the first place.
This is something enthusiasts need to accept is not a view shared by 99.9% of normals. No-one is hankering after compartments.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm an enthusiast and I'm not. My preference is for well-spaced airline seating aligned to the windows but also some tables. Class 350 end sections are perfect in just about every way.
Journeyman
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I quite agree. A good airline/table mix is the best combination for most modern travelers. I'm annoyed that some of TPE's new stock has no standard class airline seats at all - I hate sitting at tables when I'm travelling solo.
GlitterUnicorn
Member
A lot of people would feel unsafe in a confined space on a train alone. The reasons why should be self explanatory...
edwin_m
Veteran Member
In cases like this the perception of security (or the lack of it) is important. Even if somewhere isn't dangerous according to the statistics, if people feel threatened they will avoid that place if they can. Which may mean that little crime takes place in a compartment because the more vulnerable people avoid them, but they also feel unhappy about using the train in general if they know it includes coaches like that.
Journeyman
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Absolutely. There's no way I'd feel comfortable sitting alone in a compartment knowing I could end up surrounded by idiots or thugs at any moment, with minimal visibility to anyone else.
delt1c
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How the world has changed, or is it society and values that have changed.
Indeed - bright lighting also helps as regards perception of security (as well as actually reducing incidents - the two aren't always the same!) but is disliked by many on the forum.
As an introduction to these themes try this best seller from 2019:
Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That, or things have moved on with people realising that shoving 3 stagecoaches on top of a 4-wheeled flat wagon is not the optimum way to design a railway carriage? Compartments only existed because they were the default, and they were only the default because stagecoaches preceded railways, so the obvious thing to do to make railway carriages was to join some together and fit railway wheels.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's because there is a conflict there - bright lighting may improve perceptions of security, which is one element of comfort, but counts against other elements of comfort, such as a feeling of "cosiness" (hygge?)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
People don't move around coaches in the same way, and the driver is never more than about 12m away.
delt1c
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Back in the 70’s many trains were made up of a mixture of open and compartments, the compartments were the place most passengers headed for. When it was announced that no 2 nd class compartments were to be constructed in the MK2 builds there was an outcry. Now the customer has been convinced open is best. Marketing can convince many.
From personal experience we would head for a compartment if there was an empty one (typically we were travelling in a group of four). If no empty compartments we would head for a table in an open coach. What we would NOT do is join one or two people in a compartment. Other people probably behaved differently but in today's era when trains are full I suspect that a compartment coach would attract far fewer passengers than open equivalents (not to mention it would probably have less seats). There is nothing to stop us from building coaches with compartments but the operating companies would need some convincing evidence of passenger demand.
On the London commuter lines and the major intercity lines (GEML, ECML, WCML and GWML) the trains are as long (in almost all cases) as the infrastructure and signalling systems will allow, lengthening on there would be ruinous.
You've missed another issue, that dwell times are worse on corridor stock, comparing like for like (eg long Intercity carriages with doors at the end)
I'm still not sure why we have to have flood-light level lighting rather than something more calming as on the Pendolinos.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It can be bright but still not overpowering if done well, ideally indirectly - it's quite good on the Mk5 coaches, and I find it not bad on the 80x.
The key is getting the colour temperature right - NOT, NOT, NOT blueish "daylight" type.
Surely it’s about choice? The DB stock tries to keep everyone happy by having open saloons with both tables and airline style and a few compartments.
Why should some things be banned because some people don’t like them?
I’m not for one minute suggesting that we should do a Berlin-Warsaw express and have all compartment stock.
I’m suggesting we do a DB ICE which is predominantly open but has a few compartments for those who want to use them. My primary reason is to keep noisy kids from bothering other passengers!
Why should some things be banned because some people don’t like them?
I’m not for one minute suggesting that we should do a Berlin-Warsaw express and have all compartment stock.
I’m suggesting we do a DB ICE which is predominantly open but has a few compartments for those who want to use them. My primary reason is to keep noisy kids from bothering other passengers!
That was a design flaw.
The removal of light fittings and other damage caused by passengers in the same units was vandalism.
Interesting how many of the arguments against seem to be along the lines of 'British railway passengers are uniquely awful', isn't it?
simple simon
Member
some of my best ever train rides were in full width compartments - going home in the evening, at twilight on a mild summer's day with the windows open wide as the train travelled at 70+mph through London's suburbs
it was even better if one of the light bulbs were not working, as I could see even more clearly though the open windows.
All history - Class 307's no longer exist and the Class 345s have lights so bright that the reflections mean one can barely see out. Oh and they stop at all stations, whereas the 307's generally missed out most stations.
it was even better if one of the light bulbs were not working, as I could see even more clearly though the open windows.
All history - Class 307's no longer exist and the Class 345s have lights so bright that the reflections mean one can barely see out. Oh and they stop at all stations, whereas the 307's generally missed out most stations.
.... and to prove just how well compartment stock worked out, you've included a picture showing the beautiful artistic adornment on the ceiling where a passenger* has proudly displayed their sporting heritage. Good post, you've just provided graphic evidence why compartments have been banished and there is no chance that they will return.some of my best ever train rides were in full width compartments - going home in the evening, at twilight on a mild summer's day with the windows open wide as the train travelled at 70+mph through London's suburbs
it was even better if one of the light bulbs were not working, as I could see even more clearly though the open windows.
All history - Class 307's no longer exist and the Class 345s have lights so bright that the reflections mean one can barely see out. Oh and they stop at all stations, whereas the 307's generally missed out most stations.
* maybe the artwork was your own and you wanted to show it on a public forum.
Also, the reason that the 307s (and the 305s and 308s) didn't stop at all stations was because they were on a different service to that which the 345s now run. The 345s current run was provided by 315s and before that 306s, - both of which were far more suited to the needs of their passengers than the bouncy seated compartment stock.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If you feel vulnerable it is sensible to choose to sit in the aisle for that reason.
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