Does the floatation have any relevance though?
Others pointed to poor PR from the Juniper fleets but they still won Pendo. Not sure what stock exchange has to do with it.
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Alstom buys Bombardier Transportation
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Others pointed to poor PR from the Juniper fleets but they still won Pendo. Not sure what stock exchange has to do with it.
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43096
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It marks the point where the company ceased to be a UK/France company to being solely French. At that point the focus - and home market - changes substantially. French industry is always protectionist so work gravitates towards French factories.
At the time they won the Pendolino order (1997/98) the Junipers were still in build, so the lack of support wasn’t apparent.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Pendolino also had a significant input from the UK (styling, electrics, and local fit-out) and of course Italy (tilting bodyshells from the ex-Fiat plant at Savigliano).
It will be interesting to see if Savigliano survives the merger rationalisation - Alstom were prepared to sell it off for the failed Siemens merger.
It will be interesting to see if Savigliano survives the merger rationalisation - Alstom were prepared to sell it off for the failed Siemens merger.
Mikey C
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Surely the emphasis shifted away from the UK due to the lack or orders? If the 180s had worked properly, if SWT had ordered more Junipers instead of the Desiro, maybe Siemens would have stayed a niche supplier and Alstom and Bombardier would have dominated the UK market together.
43096
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Then you have to ask why the lack of orders. Answer, as above, was Alstom’s chronic inability to support its products. Only got themselves to blame.
Mikey C
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Indeed, but it's not something that can be predominantly be blamed on the French...
Bornin1980s
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Why did that happen?
thaitransit
Member
This will be very interesting as Bombardier has two rollingstock factories in Australia one in Melbourne Victoria and the other Maryborough Queensland. But there is also an Alstom rollingstock factory in Ballarat Victoria.
However Bombardier produces DMUs and trams to a unique local design in Victoria and are still in production. Alstrom was until 2019 producing EMU commuter trains based on an off the shelf design for Melbourne. They have no new orders locally.
Very interesting what will happen next?
However Bombardier produces DMUs and trams to a unique local design in Victoria and are still in production. Alstrom was until 2019 producing EMU commuter trains based on an off the shelf design for Melbourne. They have no new orders locally.
Very interesting what will happen next?
duesselmartin
Established Member
Bombardier is also building costum design trams for Duisburg ( extra Barrow bodies) in Germany.
I would assume that once large orders are dealt with, some high cost plants will close.
As to Victoria, how steady is the flow? Can another plant build them too? Does it have to be Australian build? In a globalised world, nothing is certain.
I would assume that once large orders are dealt with, some high cost plants will close.
As to Victoria, how steady is the flow? Can another plant build them too? Does it have to be Australian build? In a globalised world, nothing is certain.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I was just checking the Sydney Light Rail setup, and I see Alstom supplied the latest Citadis trams for the recent extension Line 2/3).
Looks like they were built in France/Spain though.
Line 1 is CAF Urbos, also built in Spain.
thaitransit
Member
That is correct but all recent rolling stock orders for NSW both rail and tram have been built overseas instead of locally. The upcomming NSW Trainlink long distance fleet built by CAF will be locally built in a brand new factory in dubbo.
It seems that only Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth have chosen to build trains locally. Queensland used to but went with very controversial bombairder trains from there Indian factory. It took 4 years for the 1st train to enter service after it was delivered and that doesn't include the rework done by another company in Queensland.
thaitransit
Member
The numbers are not huge but new orders seem to be placed each year for both DMUs and trams. They are also likely to get an order for Adelaide metro EMUs in the next year or 2 as there electrification project continues.
Given the Bombairder factory in Melbourne is already set up and running and is far more modern than the Alstom factory at Ballarat I suspect the ballarat factory will close after it completes refurbs on Melbourne Metro EMUs
The EU will decide on the 16th July if Alstom and Bombardier can merge.
www.railjournal.com
EU to decide on Alstom- Bombardier deal by July 16
European Union antitrust regulators have set a deadline of July 16 for a decision of whether to approve Alstom’s bid for Bombardier Transportation.
www.railjournal.com
Pakenhamtrain
Member
Tram wise they put out 1 tram a month. DMU wise they're got a couple more Vlocities to pump out in the current batch before starting the Standard Gauge ones. There's an extra 12 A-City units for Adelaide will come out of Dandenong again. They should have refurb work for the VLs. Generally speaking Victoria order a batch
Bombardier Dandenong is more than capable of pumping out a few things. It was Comeng and ABB once upon a time and they put out the Comeng EMUs, 20 3000 class railcars, Z1/Z2/Z3 A1/A2 B1/B2 class trams along with the MTR Phase 1 light rail vehicles.
Part of that is so the government of the day can say "look at us we care about jobs!" It's why every single Vlocity has "Made in Victoria for Victoria"
Stonesourscotty
Member
Victoria is very protective of Jobs the exact opposite of all the other states in Autralia. prime example being this... The Victorian government has brokered a deal to transfer manufacturing staff from Alstom’s manufacturing site in Ballarat to Bombardier’s maintenance depot in the same regional town.
Whereas Queensland Bought those awful cheap indian Emu's and NSW bought Korean Trains that are over a year late and major issues with the unions and more Chinese Waratahs which only seem confined to T2/3/8 Luckily
Whereas Queensland Bought those awful cheap indian Emu's and NSW bought Korean Trains that are over a year late and major issues with the unions and more Chinese Waratahs which only seem confined to T2/3/8 Luckily
Nohab1142
Member
Alstom has today announced the commitments to the European Union regarding the Bombardier acquisition:
The proposed commitments include:
www.alstom.com
The proposed commitments include:
- A transfer of Bombardier Transportation’s contribution to the V300 ZEFIRO very high-speed train
- The divestment of the Alstom Coradia Polyvalent and the Reichshoffen production site in France
- The divestment of the Bombardier TALENT 3 platform and dedicated production facilities located within the Hennigsdorf site in Germany
- Providing access to certain interfaces and products for some of Bombardier Transportation’s Signalling On-Board Units and Train Control Management Systems (TCMS)
Alstom announces intention to submit commitments to the European Commission as part of its planned acquisition of Bombardier Transportation
9 July 2020 – Following the notification of the transaction to the European Commission on 11 June 2020, Alstom has taken a further step towards closing of its planned acquisition of Bombardier Transpor
Mikey C
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That's not gone down well with the employees of the French facility...Alstom has today announced the commitments to the European Union regarding the Bombardier acquisition:
The proposed commitments include:
- A transfer of Bombardier Transportation’s contribution to the V300 ZEFIRO very high-speed train
- The divestment of the Alstom Coradia Polyvalent and the Reichshoffen production site in France
- The divestment of the Bombardier TALENT 3 platform and dedicated production facilities located within the Hennigsdorf site in Germany
- Providing access to certain interfaces and products for some of Bombardier Transportation’s Signalling On-Board Units and Train Control Management Systems (TCMS)
Alstom announces intention to submit commitments to the European Commission as part of its planned acquisition of Bombardier Transportation
9 July 2020 – Following the notification of the transaction to the European Commission on 11 June 2020, Alstom has taken a further step towards closing of its planned acquisition of Bombardier Transpor
Economie. Cession possible d’Alstom : coup de massue pour les salariés
Dans l’espoir de finaliser l’achat de Bombardier, Alstom a annoncé ce jeudi son intention de céder le site de production de Reichshoffen. Les 780 salariés du site sont en état de choc.
www.lalsace.fr
Gag Halfrunt
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You could be forgiven for thinking that the Coradia Polyvalent was one of Alstom's crown jewels.
www.alstom.com
Alstom delivers the 300th Coradia Polyvalent train, produced in Reichshoffen, to France's Occitanie region
19 May 2020 – Alstom delivered the 300th Coradia Polyvalent train for Régiolis in the Occitanie region on Thursday 7 May.
Suprised to see both of these being offered, I would expect one of them as they are similar but not both being offered to be sold.
Yes but it’s only the Coradia Polyvalent which is being offered, not the whole Coradia platform. So the new company will still have a regional platform.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
This is a bit like Alstom's offer to divest Pendolino production during the proposed merger with Siemens.
That wasn't enough for the regulators last time.
Polyvalent and Talent do have orders and prospects, but whether anybody wants to pick them up is debateable.
I can't see Siemens being interested, so that leaves people like Stadler, Talgo and CAF - or the Chinese.
That wasn't enough for the regulators last time.
Polyvalent and Talent do have orders and prospects, but whether anybody wants to pick them up is debateable.
I can't see Siemens being interested, so that leaves people like Stadler, Talgo and CAF - or the Chinese.
Gag Halfrunt
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Perhaps Hyundai Rotem or a Japanese manufacturer will be interested. Hyundai Rotem have won a large order for trams for Warsaw, with a commitment to open an assembly plant in Poland, so they might seize the opportunity to expand further into the European market.
According to Reuters, the EU is preparing to approve the Alstom/Bombardier merger. https://fr.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idFRKCN24S2DM
It's done: the EU approved the takeover of Bombardier Transportation by Alstom: https://railcolornews.com/2020/07/31/fr-ca-alstom-bombardier-merger-approved/
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I can't work out if this means the Bombardier-Hitachi joint bid for HS2 rolling stock is now Hitachi only, or not.
It would seem to retain both this bid and the Alstom native bid as separate ventures.
Presumably Derby will become an Alstom enterprise, along with maintenance for various Bombardier fleets including 22x and Electrostar/Aventra.
Alstom's footprint in the UK has just got a lot bigger.
It would seem to retain both this bid and the Alstom native bid as separate ventures.
Presumably Derby will become an Alstom enterprise, along with maintenance for various Bombardier fleets including 22x and Electrostar/Aventra.
Alstom's footprint in the UK has just got a lot bigger.
ThameslinkUser
Member
The article implies the Bombardier stake will be transferred to Hitachi to satisfy competition regulations.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
What's this doing in the "International" section?
Its UK implications are huge.
Its UK implications are huge.
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