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DB discontinue fares to London from 10/11/2019

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Bletchleyite

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However it will bring uncertainty for passengers relying on DB's IC or EC services (for instance, a passenger to Dresden or Salzburg) - which aren't covered as they aren't high-speed. (DB may still honour this, but they're not bound to it).

And that is my argument - they should be. It shouldn't matter what train it is that causes the delay - a TGV, Eurostar or the Class 230 on the Marston Vale - the protection needs to be legally mandated in the manner of CIV.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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There's a hint in the Railway Gazette that the problem relates to a transition phase to a new retail system for Eurostar.
It doesn't sound like a permanent or policy issue.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...db-seek-to-solve-through-ticketing-issue.html
Eurostar confirmed to Railway Gazette International that it would unable to offer DB the ability to sell its London Spezial through fares while it transferred to the new sales system. However, a spokesman said ‘we are committed to this product range and are working with DB to resolve this’
It also seems it's all the fault of the Dutch... :)
 

BRX

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30907

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In reality as members of Railteam both DB's ICE services and Eurostars will be covered by the HOTNAT agreement, so this is still actually the case, I think – even with separate tickets (whereas the legally binding CIV protections only apply if it's a journey on a single ticket).

However it will bring uncertainty for passengers relying on DB's IC or EC services (for instance, a passenger to Dresden or Salzburg) - which aren't covered as they aren't high-speed. (DB may still honour this, but they're not bound to it).

There may be a few other more technical loopholes when comparing Railteam HOTNAT to CIV protection - I think there might be something to do with hotel accommodation? Not certain, though.

And of course, if people don't know about the missed connection protection it will still put them off.

The Railteam website timetable lists EC services, but not internal ICs, as "Railteam services" (specific check: Zurich-Munich which must be just about the slowest high-speed route there is!). Confusing!
 

tasky

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The Railteam website timetable lists EC services, but not internal ICs, as "Railteam services" (specific check: Zurich-Munich which must be just about the slowest high-speed route there is!). Confusing!

Ah, interesting... wasn't aware EC was covered
 

Groningen

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The line München - Lindau gets electric power shortly. So traveltime gets down. Also the stop in Lindau; there is a change in direction. But they are thinking of moving the station. But this slightly much off topic of this thread.
 

dutchflyer

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Man in Seat 61 just tweeted:
A big disappointment if true - the connection time at Brussels is usually quite tight and I wouldn't feel too comfortable booking split tickets for that connection. Does the Railteam "next available train" policy apply if it is a split ticket?
Maybe. The EU (sorry, I know there is a thing called Brexit looming) is to decide about this-and hopefully to apply much more strict rules about this. Consumer/train-user associations are pressing for that. Also compensation for late arrivals is to be raised.
BUT if the UK steps out of that ruling institution in Brussel its anyones guess what rules will then aplly if you start from LON.
(PS; that whole thing about compensation for late arrival started long ago by British MoP-EU who too often had to deal with cancelled and very late flights from their homebases to BRU on sun-eves-they wanted to teach those airlines (and I guess most of these were british too) a lesson! And then later people caught this on to also pledge for a same thing for trains.
 

Bletchleyite

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(PS; that whole thing about compensation for late arrival started long ago by British MoP-EU who too often had to deal with cancelled and very late flights from their homebases to BRU on sun-eves-they wanted to teach those airlines (and I guess most of these were british too) a lesson! And then later people caught this on to also pledge for a same thing for trains.

That's interesting, because I thought the root of the EU261 stuff for airlines was airlines taking the mick by heavily overbooking and not properly compensating passengers, a practice which is still endemic in the US but somewhat reduced in the EU because the compensation payable is so hefty and usually well in excess of the fare.
 

dutchflyer

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Latest: on the weekly newsletter from IRJ=Railjournal was clearly stated that EURO** and DB were very busy to find a solution for this mishap, so it may after all turn out just not being able to book long time before.
 

BRX

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Latest: on the weekly newsletter from IRJ=Railjournal was clearly stated that EURO** and DB were very busy to find a solution for this mishap, so it may after all turn out just not being able to book long time before.
That's good to hear. It's surely in both their interests to get it sorted.
 

BRX

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In the end, they seemed to sort this out last year. I've used the London/Germany tickets a few times in the last few months.

However, via another thread I see this has reared its head again. On the DB website it currently says

Note: Due to a system change at Eurostar, DB no longer has an interface to Eurostar. As a result, we can no longer offer saver and flexible fares for the entire journey from and to London from 14 March 2020. We are currently working on a more customer friendly solution with Eurostar. In the meantime, you can book your ticket via the international booking platform (link provided in the travel information on bahn.com).

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/europe/saver-fare-europe-london.shtml
 

k-c-p

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In the end, they seemed to sort this out last year. I've used the London/Germany tickets a few times in the last few months.

They did not really sort it out last year. The DB could reinstate the fare for a few month, because Eurostar postponed the rollout of their new booking system from autumn 2019 to March 2020. Therefore, the offer came back for a few month (this restart did not go smoothly either - see this thread).
 

dutchflyer

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As for now this is thus still in limbo, as noone knows for sure if EU* will be able to finally make the step-over to their own brand new systems on the latest announced time. You know how it tends to go with IT; more delays as a normal train would even able to amass. But then of course DB can only wait and see what will happen and will only be able to adapt their own system to take it afters.
So far so good for stimulating people to abandon flights and use trains.
 

Bletchleyite

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Much as the loss of these deep-discount fares is a shame, I'd rather E* just priced more reasonably generally, and the EU introduced a rule mandating UK style connection protection on split tickets for any international journey including all operators of railway services where any part of the journey occurs within the EU regardless of what ticket or tickets are held.
 

Bletchleyite

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Ideally a bit *better* than the ambiguous and ill defined UK style!

It's difficult to remove the "reasonably possible" bit from things like hotels and taxis, but there should certainly be an absolute right to be rebooked onto the next train of the same operator on which there is an unreserved seat available, including upgrade to First Class if Standard is not available but First is, plus rerouteing onto another operator in the event of a delay which would involve an overnight stranding where this was not done (overnight having a definition such as "being required to wait for any of the period between 0100 and 0500"). "Next available train" is too ambiguous as it could be taken to mean "next one on which that Advance tier is available" or somesuch.
 

dutchflyer

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THIS week DB has announced the expected change in arrangements but is apparently still able to make through bookings, though with a combination of fares split in BRU for the EU* and DB/ICE parts. Discounts are announced untill 23/6. The BahnCard discount now only applies to the part in Germany. Those interested may try to find out how much the actual price to pay has gone up. How this may effect those suffering delays on whatever side for the change in BRU is not quite clear from this.
 

Goldfish62

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THIS week DB has announced the expected change in arrangements but is apparently still able to make through bookings, though with a combination of fares split in BRU for the EU* and DB/ICE parts. Discounts are announced untill 23/6. The BahnCard discount now only applies to the part in Germany. Those interested may try to find out how much the actual price to pay has gone up. How this may effect those suffering delays on whatever side for the change in BRU is not quite clear from this.
Berlin to St Pancras, 1st Class, is a journey I've done a few times. Last time I did it about 18 months ago I paid around €120. I've looked at Sunday 17 May and the 0605 departure is €230, consisting of a very reasonable €60.90 for Berlin to Brussels and €161.00 from Brussels to London.

So it's goodbye to Eurostar for any trips to and from Germany and beyond. I shall revert to flying.
 
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ES do seem to have considerably increased their base fares if you book within c.14 days of travel and on some Fridays, Sat am and Sunday pm, which is presumably what's led to the EUR161 from BMI to STP fare above. These fares are, of course, unregulated so there is little one can do other than, as Goldfish62 indicates, look at the alternatives. The random nature of the connections from Germany to Brussels doesn't help as it often seems to mean a c. 80 min connection time for ES trains. The new 'Duty Free' shop at the Channel Terminal doesn't help either, as it has taken up lots of the waiting space in the lounge making things pretty uncomfortable when the ES trains are busy (which, to be fair, they normally are notwithstanding ES's pricing policy). Flying is so much easier but.... I have tended to see quite a few through tickets from DB at manual processing at the gates at BMI in recent weeks so it looks like people are still finding a way through all this!
 

30907

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I cant find fares on the DB site yet, or anything in German, so I presume Goldfish62 has used a site like Raileurope that links to DB and ES?
I too have noticed that ES have considerably increased one-way fares generally.
@Gerald Fiennes the DB through tickets are still valid for a while longer.
 

Goldfish62

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I cant find fares on the DB site yet, or anything in German, so I presume Goldfish62 has used a site like Raileurope that links to DB and ES?
I too have noticed that ES have considerably increased one-way fares generally.
@Gerald Fiennes the DB through tickets are still valid for a while longer.
No, I used the DB app.
 

BRX

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You can do it on bahn.de but you have to press the "Preis Ermitteln" button to click through to find the price - previously it would show you the price straight away.

And when you click through it's selling it to you as two tickets, and as far as I can see the Eurostar element is the same price as buying from Eurostar direct, so there's no price advantage (unlike before).
 

ainsworth74

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(which, to be fair, they normally are notwithstanding ES's pricing policy)
Which I guess is the problem in all of this. Eurostar is expensive but they're still doing a good job filling the trains! Personally I'd say €161.00 for London to Berlin in 1st class whilst by no stretch of the imagination being cheap would not be unreasonable either. But when Eurostar can fill Standard Premier for €161.00 just on their own London to Brussels leg they have very little incentive to work with anyone else to bring in through fares for which they get a smaller piece of the pie. I fear that DB London Special tickets were a good offer which has sadly gone the way of all things. I would, personally, not be surprised if we never saw them come back. Only thing we might be able to hope for is better rights in the event of delays between DB/ES (i.e. if ES is late DB will allow later travel no quibble or vice versa).
 

Goldfish62

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You can do it on bahn.de but you have to press the "Preis Ermitteln" button to click through to find the price - previously it would show you the price straight away.

And when you click through it's selling it to you as two tickets, and as far as I can see the Eurostar element is the same price as buying from Eurostar direct, so there's no price advantage (unlike before).
Yes, that's correct, except it's in English on my app!
 

BRX

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Which I guess is the problem in all of this. Eurostar is expensive but they're still doing a good job filling the trains! Personally I'd say €161.00 for London to Berlin in 1st class whilst by no stretch of the imagination being cheap would not be unreasonable either. But when Eurostar can fill Standard Premier for €161.00 just on their own London to Brussels leg they have very little incentive to work with anyone else to bring in through fares for which they get a smaller piece of the pie. I fear that DB London Special tickets were a good offer which has sadly gone the way of all things. I would, personally, not be surprised if we never saw them come back. Only thing we might be able to hope for is better rights in the event of delays between DB/ES (i.e. if ES is late DB will allow later travel no quibble or vice versa).
There must have been a commercial reason/incentive for making them available up until now though - I'd be interested what that was. Was it that Eurostar would sell off a block of cheap places to DB in advance, perhaps for a similar price as the lowest tier you can get on the E* website - and then DB use these to tempt people onto their more lightly loaded trains, by effectively making the DB portion of the journey very cheap? The DB through tickets mostly seemed to be available on the E* services that are the ones that are cheapest when you book them directly - it was more that there seemed to be an allocation remaining on the DB combined tickets after E*'s allocation of directly-purchased cheap tickets had sold out.
 

30907

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You can do it on bahn.de but you have to press the "Preis Ermitteln" button to click through to find the price - previously it would show you the price straight away.
OK thanks. Last time I used that feature it was effectively an e-mail request, didn't realise things had changed :(

The DB through tickets mostly seemed to be available on the E* services that are the ones that are cheapest when you book them directly - it was more that there seemed to be an allocation remaining on the DB combined tickets after E*'s allocation of directly-purchased cheap tickets had sold out.
That must be fairly recent, because for a long time you could manipulate the stopover in Brussels to allow any ES at the same price, whereas you had to be careful with the DB leg(s).
 
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