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Swanage Railway - Wareham

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DarloRich

DarloRich

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I have cause to go to Swanage a couple of times this summer. What is the situation with the Swanage Railway extension to Wareham? Do trains now run through to Wareham?

Also i have never bene down this way - what can i expect? What is the run like?
 
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xc170

xc170

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This is something I was going to ask too.

I believe the plan was to use the 117 DMU for the run to Wareham but the information surrounding this is rather limited.
 
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ajs

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The Swanage Railway have their 2020 leaflet and poster on line and give the time table from Swanage to Norden Park and Ride Station. There is no mention of trains running to or from Wareham.

It's been a few years since l travelled the line. To me it's pleasant enough scenery and a rather generous 25 minutes to travel the line. Nice buffet coach at Swanage. There is a large Coop supermarket by Swanage Station, handy for supplies.

It's easy walking to the beach and follow your nose for the fish and chip shop!

The Breezer buses stop right by the station, which can provide an open top bus ride to Bournemouth.

It may well be that SWR will provide a Saturday Service to Corfu Castle like they did last year, strikes permitting!
 
Train Boy

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ajs said:
The Swanage Railway have their 2020 leaflet and poster on line and give the time table from Swanage to Norden Park and Ride Station. There is no mention of trains running to or from Wareham.
Click to expand...

That is because it's the 'January - April 2020' edition. Wareham services are due to begin in early May.
 
Midnight Sun

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The railway are going through the process to became a TOC which will allow them to run their own trains on the national network. Until this process is completed and signed off. No trains through to Wareham and beyond can be run by the railway. Back in 2016, the services were run by West Coast Trains.
 
duffield

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DarloRich said:
Oh. Next ice age then!
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I would *expect* that the Saturday SWR service to Corfe Castle will run to connect up to the Swanage Railway as least until Wareham to Swanage is given the go ahead. But of course you may not be visiting on suitable Saturday so this may not be of any use. The SWR service nominally started on 25th May last year (subject to strikes!) so it's anyone's guess as to whether the Wareham to Swanage service will be approved by that date this year.
 
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EbbwJunction1

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There's this official comment on the Facebook page in answer to the question about a start date: "When the ORR Network Rail and SWR grant the necessary licenses and permissions to operate to / from Wareham. All this is in process with hopefully a start date late Spring 2020."

They also say, in reply to a question about fares: "The fare structure for the Wareham service has yet to be decided but there will be unlimited travel options."
 
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Titfield

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I understand that progress has been made even today and that the late Spring date is hoped to be during May. The service will operate for 90 days and operate TWThSaSu.
 
341o2

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There is also an unofficial Swanage Railway FB page.
Other news - D6515 is due to travel to Southall, and will work a railtour, then return with the 4TC for the diesel gala
34072 will visit the G&WR in May
34028 is nearly complete, hopefully will return to service later this year
 
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joncombe

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The Department for Transport have awarded the Swanage railway a £50,000 grant to explore the possibility of running regular services between Wareham and Swanage. See BBC report here. Certainly sounds encouraging, I know SWR have experimented a bit with the summer weekend service to Corfe Castle.
 
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Titfield

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Well yes but there was meant to be a two year trial - one of 60 days and one of 90 days from 2015. These got pushed back because of major issues with the DMUs that were being refurbished.
It will soon be six years since the then rail minister Claire Perry inaugurated the signalling scheme down the branchline to Swanage with a special train operating.
 
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Titfield

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Yes it did but that was over a "temporary" connection back in 2004??.
All the civil works on upgrading the line have been completed, the token signalling system which enables the Corfe Castle signaller to speak to Basingstoke has been commissioned.
The issues currently are a) Swanage Railway hasnt got an Operators Licence for the mainline b) the DMUs have not been derogated for use on the mainline c) Swanage Railway are concerned about operating costs exceeding revenue based on the experience of the 2017 60 day trial (which was third party operated).
There has been talk of operating U Class 31806 (in conjunction with a Class 33 due to the inability to run-round at Wareham) as steam traction would be a greater draw but the same issue persists: namely that costs are likely to exceed revenues.
Swanage Railway cant afford to make losses given their parlous (or "knife edge" as they describe it) financial position.
 
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joncombe

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Titfield said:
c) Swanage Railway are concerned about operating costs exceeding revenue based on the experience of the 2017 60 day trial (which was third party operated).
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At the time however I recall they stated the passenger numbers exceeded expectations?
 
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dgl

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joncombe said:
At the time however I recall they stated the passenger numbers exceeded expectations?
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I'm guessing as they would have had to pay WCR for their staff, stock and locos it was probably quite expensive to run and as such even with a decent number of passengers still unable to cover costs, A bit like Rick Wakeman in the 70's, hugely successful concerts but cost more than the revenue received.
 
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Titfield

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From memory it carried about 13,000 passengers and the direct operating cost loss stated was C£10K. The majority of the staff were Swanage Railway staff.

The tourist traffic is directional ie down from Wareham in the morning and up from Swanage in the afternoon. This means that for swanage based traction there is to all intents and purposes an empty leg both in the morning and late afternoon.
 
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alexl92

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Just out of interest, why a 117 and a 121? Are they planning on operating the two as a single 4-car set? If not, it seems an odd pairing given you'll have a 3-car and a 1-car? Or is it just what was availalble?
 
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Titfield

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I think, but am not sure, it was a) what was available b) it gave some degree of operational flexibility.
Given how much they have spent on them est £1.4Million one would have thought there would have been other (better?) options.
That sort of money would probably get the other Class 33 mainline certified and a rake of coaches plus lots more.

Operating to Wareham has multiple challenges commercially and operationally:
1) The increase in cost of operating the additional mileage is considerable and unlikely to be matched by a commensurate fare increase.
2) car parking at Wareham Station is very limited.
3) encouraging passengers to travel by SWR to Wareham and thence SRC to Swanage will be a challenge when one considers the total cost ie adding the fares together.
4) delays on the mainline are likely to be costly
5) does a heritage diesel have a broad appeal - I doubt it
6) Wareham Station - having to change platforms - isnt good for the less mobile.
 
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Richard P

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I wish the Swanage Railway all the best with this venture, hopefully some time soon they can get this project finally underway. I seem to remember one of the challenges originally was the signalling joining to the main line? My personal experience of travelling "out of hours" on the DMU between Corfe and Swanage was in an evening - around about 10 years or so ago over the summer holidays and in early September they had an hourly evening service between Corfe and Swanage. Albeit I travelled on it in early September but it was very poorly patronised and hasn't been repeated the last twice I have visited the area at a similar time of year.

There's a lot of financial outlay to be made here to make this work as per the numerous posts above. My concern are that they have to compete against what are pretty decent daytime bus services in the area that drop you in the centre whilst Wareham station itself is nowhere near the town centre. I appreciate people could use it to connect with NR services but I suspect the vast majority would be people travelling the full line whilst on holiday and tbh there's nothing to see or do at Wareham station other than take a long walk to the town centre
 
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Titfield

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From observation many of the bus users are using the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme or to use the vernacular the Senior Citizens Free Bus Pass! Choice between paying to travel on a DMU or free bus I think it is obvious which many would choose.

As the above poster alludes to it is a quite a walk to the Wareham Town Centre and unfortunately the place to go is the Quayside which is the opposite end of town ie the longest walk.

The evening DMU was withdrawn due to lack of patronage. Its main users were holidaymakers staying overnight in Swanage using it to go to Corfe Castle for a change of scene in the evening. However as the number of overnights stayers in Swanage has dropped massively so patronage has made it uneconomic. Dropping the fare to £5 return on the service didnt encourage much additional patronage.

One concern must be is that if a Wareham service abstracted revenue from the bus service Swanage could end up losing its bus service in the winter. GoSouthCoast have referenced that it is the profits in the summer that are used to offset the losses in the winter.

ADDED
As an example of the financial challenge consider this:
1) the return fare Norden <> Swanage is £15 the return fare Wareham <> Swanage is £20 (trial service). ie the Wareham fare is a 33% increase on the Norden fare.
2) the round trip distance Norden <> Swanage is about 12 miles, the round trip distance Wareham (Station) <> Swanage is about 20 miles. ie the wareham round trip is a 66% increase in distance on the Norden round trip distance.
Thus it is likely that the additional running costs of going to Wareham will exceed the additional revenues.
 
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packermac

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Richard P said:
I wish the Swanage Railway all the best with this venture, hopefully some time soon they can get this project finally underway. I seem to remember one of the challenges originally was the signalling joining to the main line? My personal experience of travelling "out of hours" on the DMU between Corfe and Swanage was in an evening - around about 10 years or so ago over the summer holidays and in early September they had an hourly evening service between Corfe and Swanage. Albeit I travelled on it in early September but it was very poorly patronised and hasn't been repeated the last twice I have visited the area at a similar time of year.

There's a lot of financial outlay to be made here to make this work as per the numerous posts above. My concern are that they have to compete against what are pretty decent daytime bus services in the area that drop you in the centre whilst Wareham station itself is nowhere near the town centre. I appreciate people could use it to connect with NR services but I suspect the vast majority would be people travelling the full line whilst on holiday and tbh there's nothing to see or do at Wareham station other than take a long walk to the town centre
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The only part I would disagree with is that I do not regard an hourly bus service as "decent", but then I lived in London most of my life so perhaps my view is skewed.
 
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The Ham

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packermac said:
The only part I would disagree with is that I do not regard an hourly bus service as "decent", but then I lived in London most of my life so perhaps my view is skewed.
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No hourly is not decent & I live in a village* of 9,000.

*Personally I think it's a small town, but the locals get grumpy if you suggest that it's not a village.
 
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