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Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

ajdunlop

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There is clearly a lot of work going on around Miles Platting Junction (vegetation clearance, setting up of a construction compound).
With the scale of the work I assume this is the line speed improvements for trains using this junction to route via the North Transpennine line. Are there any details about this work? Normally there would be some documents with layouts, have I just missed them?
 
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LittleAH

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Church Fenton works in autumn cancelled, which apparently was partly to do with TRU... hope it’s not a bad sign.
 

Roger B

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Church Fenton works in autumn cancelled, which apparently was partly to do with TRU... hope it’s not a bad sign.

Sounds ominous on first reading. Unless they've decided to extend the scope and include to Neville Hill - or even accelerate TRU. I guess time will tell.
 

Glenn1969

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The Huddersfield- Ravensthorpe TWAO will not be submitted until the end of the year so presume 2022 start? Plans go online on Monday
 

Killingworth

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The Huddersfield- Ravensthorpe TWAO will not be submitted until the end of the year so presume 2022 start? Plans go online on Monday

If a TWAO were agreed at the end of 2020 a spades in the ground date as early as 2022 would be unilkely. If it's submitted in late 2020 the DfTs turn around time for TWAOs averages about 6 months, but that includes very simple schemes and Platform 15/16. Given priority construction may be able to start in 2023 but without prioritisation completion by 2025/26 will be challenging.
 

quantinghome

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Church Fenton works in autumn cancelled, which apparently was partly to do with TRU... hope it’s not a bad sign.

Speculating, but this may be connected to the HS2 review. The railway between Leeds and York has multiple schemes including TRU, and HS2, and NPR. It makes sense to have a properly worked out plan. Maybe the planned Church Fenton works didn't tie in with this.
 

Revaulx

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I will try to get to one of the Hudds ones, and will be asking a couple of questions:
  1. Wouldn’t it be easier to have the fasts on the north/west side, thus making use of the extant burrowing junction at Heaton Lodge? I know this would put the slows on the wrong side at Bradley Jn, but it looks like there’s room for a single track flyover there.
  2. The four track formation is still intact, and encroached on only by railway stuff (e.g. Slaithwaite station), westwards from Hudds to Diggle Jn. Has the possibility of extending the four tracking further south, but not necessarily through the tunnels, been looked at?
One of the benefits of the proposed scheme is increasing the frequency of the Leeds stoppers. The same is needed for the Manchester side.
 

hwl

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If a TWAO were agreed at the end of 2020 a spades in the ground date as early as 2022 would be unilkely. If it's submitted in late 2020 the DfTs turn around time for TWAOs averages about 6 months, but that includes very simple schemes and Platform 15/16. Given priority construction may be able to start in 2023 but without prioritisation completion by 2025/26 will be challenging.
One useful thing that can be done is starting a decent vegetation programme (as they are doing for Kilmarnock) so there aren't delayed by any nesting season issues depending on when a TWAO is granted and can get on with the rest of construction tasks sooner.

Even if waiting for a TWAO plenty of minor railway preparatory works can be undertaken during existing possessions etc.
 

61653 HTAFC

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(EDIT: in reply to @Revaulx , additional posts were made while I was typing :oops: )

On your first point: I'm not sure you could fit a flyover spanning at least two tracks, and ramps up to it either end between the various bridges. Particularly at the Brighouse bound end before the line enters the short tunnel. It would be very expensive and the gradients would rival the Lickey! :lol:

In any case, the dive-under at Heaton Lodge will need rebuilding for electrification clearances anyway.

Some additional four-tracking to the West of Huddersfield would be nice for sure, and would help the case for the proposed station(s?) at Milnsbridge/Golcar... unfortunately as the line was rationalised in the 70s and 80s it won't qualify for "un-Beeching" funds! :lol:
 
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Revaulx

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(EDIT: in reply to @Revaulx , additional posts were made while I was typing :oops: )

On your first point: I'm not sure you could fit a flyover spanning at least two tracks, and ramps up to it either end between the various bridges. Particularly at the Brighouse bound end before the line enters the short tunnel. It would be very expensive and the gradients would rival the Lickey! :lol:

In any case, the dive-under at Heaton Lodge will need rebuilding for electrification clearances anyway.

Yeah having looked at it again, I’d forgotten about the tunnel on the Brighouse line, and the derelict land alongside the main line isn’t all that long.

I wonder whether the diveunder headroom was always that tight, or whether the trackbed was raised a bit when it was reopened as a diveunder.

Some additional four-tracking to the West of Huddersfield would be nice for sure, and would help the case for the proposed station(s?) at Milnsbridge/Golcar... unfortunately as the line was rationalised in the 70s and 80s it won't qualify for "un-Beeching" funds! :lol:

I can’t ever remember it being four track west of Huddersfield. The New Line and Micklehurst certainly went during the Beeching Era.
 

edwin_m

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I can’t ever remember it being four track west of Huddersfield. The New Line and Micklehurst certainly went during the Beeching Era.
I think it was all at the same time, as those sections effectively formed a four-track railway between Stalybridge and Leeds.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Are there really any plans to do that?
It's an aspiration of Kirklees Council, and AIUI WYITA are supportive without prioritising it as such.

Pre-Beeching (by the way apologies for my misremembering of when the 4-tracking was axed, I'm sure I've made that mistake before!) the stations were Golcar; and Longwood & Milnsbridge. In around 2012/13 the then-councillor for Golcar (a certain Paul Salveson, whom some members may have heard of) was promoting a station near the former goods yard of Longwood & Milnsbridge station, just off the Marsden end of Milnsbridge viaduct.

P.S. The main stumbling block for this proposal (besides funding, obviously) was and is a lack of any slack in the timetable to allow the stopper/semi-fast to make an additional call.
 
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Revaulx

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It's an aspiration of Kirklees Council, and AIUI WYITA are supportive without prioritising it as such.

Pre-Beeching (by the way apologies for my misremembering of when the 4-tracking was axed, I'm sure I've made that mistake before!) the stations were Golcar; and Longwood & Milnsbridge. In around 2012/13 the then-councillor for Golcar (a certain Paul Salveson, whom some members may have heard of) was promoting a station near the former goods yard of Longwood & Milnsbridge station, just off the Marsden end of Milnsbridge viaduct.

P.S. The main stumbling block for this proposal (besides funding, obviously) was and is a lack of any slack in the timetable to allow the stopper/semi-fast to make an additional call.
It would be good to get a station at Diggle at the same time. I can’t see any chance of either happening without quadrupling.
 

nr758123

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It's an aspiration of Kirklees Council, and AIUI WYITA are supportive without prioritising it as such.

Pre-Beeching (by the way apologies for my misremembering of when the 4-tracking was axed, I'm sure I've made that mistake before!) the stations were Golcar; and Longwood & Milnsbridge. In around 2012/13 the then-councillor for Golcar (a certain Paul Salveson, whom some members may have heard of) was promoting a station near the former goods yard of Longwood & Milnsbridge station, just off the Marsden end of Milnsbridge viaduct.

P.S. The main stumbling block for this proposal (besides funding, obviously) was and is a lack of any slack in the timetable to allow the stopper/semi-fast to make an additional call.

There was a Feasibility Study on New Railway Stations in North and West Yorkshire done by WS Atkins for WYCA, in 2014, which looked at 61 potential new station sites.

Golcar was one of 12 sites which made it past a preliminary sift into a detailed feasibility assessment. It scored quite well on potential use, but fell down on the operational assessment, i.e the lack of any slack in the timetable.

Incidentally, aside from Elland and either Thorpe Park or East Leeds Parkway which were at or close to the top of the list, the other two stations that are going to be built are Cookridge and White Rose Centre, which came in ranked 45th & 57th respectively out of the 61 sites looked at.

Link is https://michaelbradleysblog.files.w...stations-study-report-v1-0-final-redacted.pdf
 

61653 HTAFC

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There was a Feasibility Study on New Railway Stations in North and West Yorkshire done by WS Atkins for WYCA, in 2014, which looked at 61 potential new station sites.

Golcar was one of 12 sites which made it past a preliminary sift into a detailed feasibility assessment. It scored quite well on potential use, but fell down on the operational assessment, i.e the lack of any slack in the timetable.

Incidentally, aside from Elland and either Thorpe Park or East Leeds Parkway which were at or close to the top of the list, the other two stations that are going to be built are Cookridge and White Rose Centre, which came in ranked 45th & 57th respectively out of the 61 sites looked at.

Link is https://michaelbradleysblog.files.w...stations-study-report-v1-0-final-redacted.pdf
A Golcar station would certainly do well even with an hourly service, if space could be found in the timetable. It's an area of very mixed incomes, with a very frequent bus service which often gets snarled up in traffic. Milnsbridge and the bottom end of Golcar are quite deprived whereas further up the hill and along the valley you get into the bougie parts with Chelsea tractors abound.

Given that £1.8bn of funding has just been agreed as part of a devolution settlement for West Yorkshire, I hope some DfT/Treasury bods will have the opportunity to see the sheer folly of the White Rose Centre station proposal and tighten the reins with Leeds City Council.
 

Spartacus

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Incidentally, aside from Elland and either Thorpe Park or East Leeds Parkway which were at or close to the top of the list, the other two stations that are going to be built are Cookridge and White Rose Centre, which came in ranked 45th & 57th respectively out of the 61 sites looked at.

Link is https://michaelbradleysblog.files.w...stations-study-report-v1-0-final-redacted.pdf

White Rose is merely a bribe to the shopping centre so that it doesn't protest too loudly against the planned extension of the Leeds low emission/congestion zone to it's originally planned limits which would encompass the White Rose Centre and include the private car, which would surely go a long way to killing it off.
 

R G NOW.

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It would be good to get a station at Diggle at the same time. I can’t see any chance of either happening without quadrupling.
I assume this station would be on the slow lines after quadrupling being done, like with Lawrence hill and stapleton road on the Filton bank. I think they would need to reopen the other two standege tunnels as well.
 

AndrewE

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I used to think that, but there is nowhere for fast lines to go in the Manchester direction.
I think the station should be on the existing lines - as the fast lines will (should) be in a new tunnel from (very roughly) Oldham to Huddersfield.
Don't know why this won't post - says it needs to be more than 5 letters - maybe it doesn't allow maverick opinions!
 

NorthernSpirit

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I used to think that, but there is nowhere for fast lines to go in the Manchester direction.
I think the station should be on the existing lines - as the fast lines will (should) be in a new tunnel from (very roughly) Oldham to Huddersfield.

Could the Lydgate branch be recomissioned? As far as I know it use to connect with the line to Manchester Victoria.
 

edwin_m

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Could the Lydgate branch be recomissioned? As far as I know it use to connect with the line to Manchester Victoria.
There's a housing estate on it between Greenfield and the Lydgate tunnel. On the other side it's still largely clear but has been infilled with waste landfill (complete with methane vents).

Shame, because in combination with the Oldham-Ashton line it could have made an alternative transpennine route and also given Oldham a useful link to Yorkshire. It actually connected more with the Ashton line via Clegg Street than with the L&Y via the adjacent Central station and Werneth, although there were crossovers between the two between Mumps and Central/Clegg St.
 

yorksrob

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There's a housing estate on it between Greenfield and the Lydgate tunnel. On the other side it's still largely clear but has been infilled with waste landfill (complete with methane vents).

Shame, because in combination with the Oldham-Ashton line it could have made an alternative transpennine route and also given Oldham a useful link to Yorkshire. It actually connected more with the Ashton line via Clegg Street than with the L&Y via the adjacent Central station and Werneth, although there were crossovers between the two between Mumps and Central/Clegg St.

Yes, have walked part of it (between Oldham and the tunnel). Interesting to speculate what part it could have made in the network had it survived !
 

AndrewE

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There's a housing estate on it between Greenfield and the Lydgate tunnel. On the other side it's still largely clear but has been infilled with waste landfill (complete with methane vents).
Shame, because in combination with the Oldham-Ashton line it could have made an alternative transpennine route and also given Oldham a useful link to Yorkshire. It actually connected more with the Ashton line via Clegg Street than with the L&Y via the adjacent Central station and Werneth, although there were crossovers between the two between Mumps and Central/Clegg St.
Yes, have walked part of it (between Oldham and the tunnel). Interesting to speculate what part it could have made in the network had it survived !
How do you get from Greenfield to Diggle? Much better to go for a better solution which sidesteps the western approach problem altogether...
 

Revaulx

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There's a housing estate on it between Greenfield and the Lydgate tunnel. On the other side it's still largely clear but has been infilled with waste landfill (complete with methane vents).
Bottom of my garden (the housing estate, not the methane landfill :D). Grasscroft Halt would have been handy!
Shame, because in combination with the Oldham-Ashton line it could have made an alternative transpennine route and also given Oldham a useful link to Yorkshire. It actually connected more with the Ashton line via Clegg Street than with the L&Y via the adjacent Central station and Werneth, although there were crossovers between the two between Mumps and Central/Clegg St.
Agreed, but this is a good example of the pre-nationalised railway (the LMS at least) displaying a total lack of imagination. The Grouping should have opened up huge opportunities for new services that crossed pre-Grouping borders, but instead the old patterns prevailed; in many cases up to closure in BR days.

It’s obviously quite a bit further than the route via Stalybridge, but a Manchester-Oldham-Hudds-Leeds semi-fast would surely have been a success. Though I suppose the poor location of Oldham’s stations would always have been an issue.
 

AndrewE

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Bottom of my garden (the housing estate, not the methane landfill :D). Grasscroft Halt would have been handy!
Agreed, but this is a good example of the pre-nationalised railway (the LMS at least) displaying a total lack of imagination. The Grouping should have opened up huge opportunities for new services that crossed pre-Grouping borders, but instead the old patterns prevailed; in many cases up to closure in BR days.
It’s obviously quite a bit further than the route via Stalybridge, but a Manchester-Oldham-Hudds-Leeds semi-fast would surely have been a success. Though I suppose the poor location of Oldham’s stations would always have been an issue.
Where is your ambition? A new station in Oldham must accompany my new line and base tunnel direct to Huddersfield...
Just think how good a service Grasscoft could have without the need to limit stoppers so they fit in between pesky expresses...
 

tpjm

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The solution to dropping a new station in at Golcar is indeed to put four tracks in and pop it on the slow line. Slaithwaite would need to be widened and returned to the glory days with the four track running through Marsden and the second bore reopened at Standedge. The lines would merge back into two some time after Diggle Jnc.

The alternative that would still work with the timetable is to four track from Slaithwaite onwards as above. This would minimise the cost of flattening Slaithwaite station.

Marsden is well placed in that it still has four platforms, albeit one has no track.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Much like how West of Huddersfield there's no space for quadrupling throughout beyond Ravensthorpe, the historical 'splitting' of capacity between the Greenfield and Micklehurst routes means the remaining formation is only suitable for double track. Just as it remains to be seen how Ravensthorpe to Leeds will get a capacity increase (the current Eastbound overtaking opportunity at Dewsbury looks like it'll be removed based on diagrams(!)), the section between Huddersfield and Stalybridge hasn't had any concrete plans released either.

4-tracking is certainly possible from Huddersfield to Diggle, but doing the whole lot would be expensive. As long as 2 tracks are the limit West of Diggle, there's little point in doing all of the rest anyway as if you use the 4-track section to its full potential you just create a bottleneck. Dynamic loops at strategic points should suffice, particularly if they cover the stations to reduce waits at signals. That would mean completely rebuilding Slaithwaite, but those wooden platforms are the same age as I am so they're probably due for replacement anyway!

Standedge tunnel is a tricky one as whilst electrification through the twin bore should be relatively straightforward, reopening the disused bores might not be. As older single bores clearances for wires might be an issue, as is maintaining the emergency access which one of those bores currently gives. At least we seem to have moved on from the "Grayling Gap" thinking (fingers crossed).
 
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