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Coronavirus.

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miami

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He does not manage the flat, a letting agent does and they are a waste of space

Doesn't matter who he outsources his responsibilities to, it's still on him.

I have not used air travel since the climate emergency came in. Young people who took part in the climate strikes might have noticed that the baby boomer generation in particular did not change their habits in the face of the emergency that puts young people's future in jeopardy. Now it is a different story when something comes along whose victims are more likely to be old than young, male rather than female. This might have something to do with it being predominantly old men who form the political class.

These same young people might be excused for not bothering to constrain their life choices in the face of a virus that generally only claims its victims from the over 60s.

#notAllBoomers etc, but yes, all this.

Funny how when something disproportionately affects the "Me Generation" the response is different. Retired people don't suffer when they have to self-isolate for 2 weeks, people working in small businesses, or who are self employed, do. Those working minimum wage jobs and lucky enough to get SSP when they lose 100 hours of work will be looking forward to a £600 drop in income.

I guess some boomers are affected when their tenants can't pay the rent because they've lost their job. Perhaps there will be a bailout for them, funded by those lucky enough to still be working (certainly wouldn't be funded by a tax on the wealthiest generation)

Meanwhile old people are returning from a month in Thailand and going to doctors surgeries, lying to the receptionist about their travel history, and closing the surgery - denying care to those who need it - because 'me me me'.

In Italy not a single person of working age has died, but there seems to be a collective punishment going on aimed at stopping people working. I see that those working on airlines are being forced to take unpaid leave, or maybe it's just been offered for now - https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/british-airways-begins-enforcing-unpaid-leave.html. Certainly other airlines are forcing it.

So far efforts to fight it seem almost entirely for the benefit of the old, at the expense of the young. Coming after 5 years of diametrically opposed view between boomers and the two following generations, and 20 years of housing mess from boomer nimbys, it may be this this is the final straw that breaks the camels back. How much are workers willing to sacrifice? We know we can't stop this from spreading, but with a lot of sacrifice to the under 60s the spread could be slowed. How much that will cost in terms of QALS is anyone's guess, but that number should be in people's minds.
 
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DerekC

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#notAllBoomers etc, but yes, all this.

Funny how when something disproportionately affects the "Me Generation" the response is different. Retired people don't suffer when they have to self-isolate for 2 weeks, people working in small businesses, or who are self employed, do. Those working minimum wage jobs and lucky enough to get SSP when they lose 100 hours of work will be looking forward to a £600 drop in income.

I guess some boomers are affected when their tenants can't pay the rent because they've lost their job. Perhaps there will be a bailout for them, funded by those lucky enough to still be working (certainly wouldn't be funded by a tax on the wealthiest generation)

Meanwhile old people are returning from a month in Thailand and going to doctors surgeries, lying to the receptionist about their travel history, and closing the surgery - denying care to those who need it - because 'me me me'.

In Italy not a single person of working age has died, but there seems to be a collective punishment going on aimed at stopping people working. I see that those working on airlines are being forced to take unpaid leave, or maybe it's just been offered for now - https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/british-airways-begins-enforcing-unpaid-leave.html. Certainly other airlines are forcing it.

So far efforts to fight it seem almost entirely for the benefit of the old, at the expense of the young. Coming after 5 years of diametrically opposed view between boomers and the two following generations, and 20 years of housing mess from boomer nimbys, it may be this this is the final straw that breaks the camels back. How much are workers willing to sacrifice? We know we can't stop this from spreading, but with a lot of sacrifice to the under 60s the spread could be slowed. How much that will cost in terms of QALS is anyone's guess, but that number should be in people's minds.

I doubt if your facts are correct since Italian doctors have just written to the NHS emphasising that the virus does not just impact the elderly, but assuming they are - what, precisely, are you suggesting? Lock "Boomers" who get the virus up in a camp somewhere and wait for them to die so that you don't have to lose money? Of course it would save on the social care budget, too. And think of all the cash you could get by selling their property.
 

RichT54

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Tesco has reacted to the panic buying by rationing some "essential" items:

Tesco, the UK's largest grocer, has begun rationing essential food and household items as a result of coronavirus stockpiling.

Shoppers are limited to buying no more than five of each of the rationed goods, including antibacterial gels, wipes and sprays, dry pasta, UHT milk and some tinned vegetables

The rules apply in stores and online.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51790375
 

Esker-pades

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Perhaps this outbreak will expose the inadequacies of the significant proliferation of the gig economy such that something is done to limit it.

The huge number of people who are effectively working for a company, but technically not, means that they have no protection for leave, and often loose money because they have to pay £X per day to hire essential equipment. In that way, not only do you not make money if you don't work, you actually loose some. Said people are also much more likely to have a significant lack of financial resiliance such that they can't really afford to take more than a couple of days off max. Given that these people also work in industries with a high-contact rate (an Uber driver sees a lot of different people across quite a large area, for example), this will mean that the virus is spread far more quickly.

What it boils down to is that, for the short-term gains of a few, the health of the population is put at risk. Irresponsible capitalism directly causes the spread of COVID-19.
 

Busaholic

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Retailers aren't allowed to sell more than two boxes of paracetamol at a time (for overdose prevention), which rather limits the scope for panic-buying.
Paracetamol of the basic kind (i.e. not with a brand name and costing £s) have been in short supply in supermarkets in my part of Cornwall since before Christmas, even in Poundland which continues to sell three boxes for £1, three boxes having been the limit applied everywhere until a year or two ago. Poundland have them again, I bought my three last week, which last me for about two and a half weeks.
 

Busaholic

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Tesco has reacted to the panic buying by rationing some "essential" items:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51790375
That's really strange - I was going through the checkout at my local Tesco yesterday when the duty manager came over to the cashier and said (I paraphrase, but it's the gist): ''I'm getting fed up with all this, I'm limiting sales of toilet paper, pasta and paracetomol (sic!) to five packs per person. Anyone querying it, send them over to see me.'' Bigging himself up, having received instructions from head office, or was he being prescient?!
 

matacaster

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That's really strange - I was going through the checkout at my local Tesco yesterday when the duty manager came over to the cashier and said (I paraphrase, but it's the gist): ''I'm getting fed up with all this, I'm limiting sales of toilet paper, pasta and paracetomol (sic!) to five packs per person. Anyone querying it, send them over to see me.'' Bigging himself up, having received instructions from head office, or was he being prescient?!

Not sure of connection between pasta and toilet paper, would have thought a really good hot curry and copious amounts of toilet paper would have been a better match?
 

Mogster

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I doubt if your facts are correct since Italian doctors have just written to the NHS emphasising that the virus does not just impact the elderly, but assuming they are - what, precisely, are you suggesting? Lock "Boomers" who get the virus up in a camp somewhere and wait for them to die so that you don't have to lose money? Of course it would save on the social care budget, too. And think of all the cash you could get by selling their property.

From Korean data and reports from WHO scientists on the ground in China SARS CoV2 is affecting the elderly via familiar symptomatic transmission. Children aren’t spreading it so schools shouldn’t be a problem, the disease isn’t spreading in hospitals either. Community transmission is rare, people are catching it from close contact looking after sick family members.

The data from the UK mirrors the data from Korea, WHO scientists are working through the Chinese data which also looks similar and encouraging. It’s worth noting but I’m not sure I trust the Italian data for now, their situation seems chaotic.
 
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Ianno87

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Interesting that one of the proposed actions to reduce contagion is to have online video and telephone doctors consultations rather than going to surgery. This should be the norm in this day and age coronavirus or not. Yes, not all people have the necessary equipment (very old for example - but could be provided in care homes), but for the vast majority of working age cases, a wasteful visit to surgery may be avoided. This would be a great boom to many working age people. Sure you may be asked to come to surgery in any case,but unnecessary visits could be largely eliminated which benefits everyone. NHS GP's, welcome to the 21st Century.

The surgery I've just registered for does a telephone appointment as the first stage of "triage", to see as to whether an appointment is necessary.
 

Gooner18

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I will have no choice but to go to work even if i feel ill , I will only get statutory sick pay and having just two pay rises in 11 years amounting to 3% despite the company registering increased profits , increased market shares every year leaving me a lot worse off and not being able to afford to be off
 

krus_aragon

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I will have no choice but to go to work even if i feel ill , I will only get statutory sick pay and having just two pay rises in 11 years amounting to 3% despite the company registering increased profits , increased market shares every year leaving me a lot worse off and not being able to afford to be off
Health issues and transmissibility aside, remember that many (such as freelancers and the self-employed ) aren't even entitled to statutory sick pay in the first place.
 

Gooner18

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Health issues and transmissibility aside, remember that many (such as freelancers and the self-employed ) aren't even entitled to statutory sick pay in the first place.

I know it’s even worse for them, however that is why they pay a lower NI rate.
I have no choice but to go in , guess it goes. Some way to prove Not giving basic inflation pay rises while making profits eventually comes to bite you
 

Grumpy Git

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I know it’s even worse for them, however that is why they pay a lower NI rate.
I have no choice but to go in , guess it goes. Some way to prove Not giving basic inflation pay rises while making profits eventually comes to bite you

If you get "proper" flu, you won't be getting out of bed, never mind going to work.
 

matacaster

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Perhaps this outbreak will expose the inadequacies of the significant proliferation of the gig economy such that something is done to limit it.

The huge number of people who are effectively working for a company, but technically not, means that they have no protection for leave, and often loose money because they have to pay £X per day to hire essential equipment. In that way, not only do you not make money if you don't work, you actually loose some. Said people are also much more likely to have a significant lack of financial resiliance such that they can't really afford to take more than a couple of days off max. Given that these people also work in industries with a high-contact rate (an Uber driver sees a lot of different people across quite a large area, for example), this will mean that the virus is spread far more quickly.

What it boils down to is that, for the short-term gains of a few, the health of the population is put at risk. Irresponsible capitalism directly causes the spread of COVID-19.

I've always been somewhat surprised that none of the big unions has ever tried running, say, a parcels courier operation. That way, they could offer the best possible conditions to its workforce who would all be union members and that would remove many from the gig economy. What's not to like? [sadly the unions haven't a great record on their employment conditions for their own staff]
 

Esker-pades

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I've always been somewhat surprised that none of the big unions has ever tried running, say, a parcels courier operation. That way, they could offer the best possible conditions to its workforce who would all be union members and that would remove many from the gig economy. What's not to like? [sadly the unions haven't a great record on their employment conditions for their own staff]
I don't understand how a union not starting its own courier operation relates to my point. Could you explain?
 

nlogax

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I do hate when people are off a few days with a bad cold and claim they had "the flu".

No you didn't.

Exactly. In my experience real flu is a 100°+ temperature (with associated fever dreams!), vomiting, sneezing, coughing, feeling like you've been run over by a bus, hoarseness / loss of voice and absolutely zero appetite for the best part of ten days - two weeks. I've had it twice in my life and I never want to experience it again. To those of you here who are young or fortunate enough never to have had the flu before then you'll know it as soon as it comes along. It's like being in love..well, the complete opposite but you get the picture.

A cold is nothing in comparison.
 

Grumpy Git

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Exactly. In my experience real flu is a 100°+ temperature (with associated fever dreams!), vomiting, sneezing, coughing, feeling like you've been run over by a bus, hoarseness / loss of voice and absolutely zero appetite for the best part of ten days - two weeks. I've had it twice in my life and I never want to experience it again. To those of you here who are young or fortunate enough never to have had the flu before then you'll know it as soon as it comes along. It's like being in love..well, the complete opposite but you get the picture.

A cold is nothing in comparison.

Precisely, and it really is no exaggeration to say you feel like you are dying.
 

Cowley

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I do hate when people are off a few days with a bad cold and claim they had "the flu".

No you didn't.
Yes absolutely.
To my knowledge I’ve only ever had proper flu twice in my life. I’ve had plenty of really bad colds over the years, but flu probably only twice. Once as a young child when we lived in Cornwall, and once as an adult before I had kids. Both times I was completely unable to function, ie walk, stand, control my movements etc.

I worked for Social Services for a good few years and I had the best sick record on our team throughout that decade, but since being self employed (12 years now) I’ve only ever taken two days off sick - when I’ve literally been so wiped out that even if I could have made it into work I probably would have done more harm than good...
It’s surprising what a difference it makes to how you grade the severity of your particular illness that day when you don’t get paid for taking a day off...
I’ve generally ended up lying in bed for an extra half an hour after the alarm goes off thinking to myself that I might as well just be ripping up fivers while sitting there contemplating getting up and making an appearance at whatever job I was meant to be doing that day. That’s always been enough to force me out of my pit and into the van (along with the fact that if you miss a day it’ll often mess up the next few weeks because you don’t generally have much slack built into your timetable, and you’ll end up getting massively behind and annoying your customers).

The reason I’m saying all this is that I can’t see how people that have to be out working no matter how rough they feel could possibly bring themselves to observe a potential ban on free movement etc.
I’m lucky at the moment in that I probably could self isolate (along with the other seven people that I live with :lol:) for a few weeks if need be, but a few years ago I would have just had to have worked until someone forced me not too because if I hadn’t I’d have probably lost my house...
 
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UP13

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I do hate when people are off a few days with a bad cold and claim they had "the flu".

No you didn't.

My father-in-law says if it's raining £50 notes outside, if you genuinely had flu you'd still wouldn't be able to get out of bed.
 

underbank

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Interesting that one of the proposed actions to reduce contagion is to have online video and telephone doctors consultations rather than going to surgery. This should be the norm in this day and age coronavirus or not. Yes, not all people have the necessary equipment (very old for example - but could be provided in care homes), but for the vast majority of working age cases, a wasteful visit to surgery may be avoided. This would be a great boom to many working age people. Sure you may be asked to come to surgery in any case,but unnecessary visits could be largely eliminated which benefits everyone. NHS GP's, welcome to the 21st Century.

Same should be happening a lot more in business too. Still far too many unnecessary meetings just because it's the norm and habit. Hopefully once it's all over, people will realise that most meetings/appointments etc aren't necessary and we can crack on with making better use of technology.
 

Bletchleyite

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Exactly. In my experience real flu is a 100°+ temperature (with associated fever dreams!), vomiting, sneezing, coughing, feeling like you've been run over by a bus, hoarseness / loss of voice and absolutely zero appetite for the best part of ten days - two weeks. I've had it twice in my life and I never want to experience it again. To those of you here who are young or fortunate enough never to have had the flu before then you'll know it as soon as it comes along. It's like being in love..well, the complete opposite but you get the picture.

A cold is nothing in comparison.

My Mum said "if you have flu you can't get out of bed". In that form I've had it only twice in my 40 and a bit years.
 

Bletchleyite

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Same should be happening a lot more in business too. Still far too many unnecessary meetings just because it's the norm and habit. Hopefully once it's all over, people will realise that most meetings/appointments etc aren't necessary and we can crack on with making better use of technology.

Agreed. These things are often tried through need (or fear) and become the norm. The high level of cycling in London, for instance, largely started because of fear of the Tube due to the terrorist attacks a while ago (ironically, as you're much more likely to be killed cycling) and stuck.
 

Darandio

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My father-in-law says if it's raining £50 notes outside, if you genuinely had flu you'd still wouldn't be able to get out of bed.

And he is completely correct, i've only had it once about 20 years ago and don't wish to ever experience it again. All of what @nlogax describes above is absolutely spot on and I had no control over the back end either. Even lying in bed trying to watch TV was a chore and although I was only around 9ft away from the screen, it seemed like it was 30ft away down some sort of narrow tunnel. Weird stuff proper flu.
 

Bletchleyite

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And he is completely correct, i've only had it once about 20 years ago and don't wish to ever experience it again. All of what @nlogax describes above is absolutely spot on and I had no control over the back end either. Even lying in bed trying to watch TV was a chore and although I was only around 9ft away from the screen, it seemed like it was 30ft away down some sort of narrow tunnel. Weird stuff proper flu.

Possibly low blood oxygen level caused by the lung effects? That can happen to me if I have a bad asthma attack, it is a bit weird.
 

nlogax

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Possibly low blood oxygen level caused by the lung effects? That can happen to me if I have a bad asthma attack, it is a bit weird.

Talking of asthma, this is the one thing that personally concerns me re. Covid-19. I'm normally prone to 'asthma-enhanced' chest infections after colds and the 'flu, so this illness could be..interesting. Tbh I just want to catch the damned thing as soon as possible and get it over with so I can get on with my life.
 
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