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Problems at Ore

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RichardKing

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GTR are saying that there was an operational incident at Ore last night that will be affecting services all day today. As I understand it, an operational incident is usually something like a SPAD or wrong-side door release, so I'm wondering how this one incident is still causing disruption 24 hours later?
 
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bramling

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GTR are saying that there was an operational incident at Ore last night that will be affecting services all day today. As I understand it, an operational incident is usually something like a SPAD or wrong-side door release, so I'm wondering how this one incident is still causing disruption 24 hours later?

Set of points run through?
 

ComUtoR

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The domino effect.

The Driver involved may have been working a turn tomorrow that has now been cancelled. All their trains will no longer run, the services they make on other trips get cancelled, other Drivers get displaced, units get trapped in sidings or stations, they cause cancellations for other services....

Round and round we go :)
 

king_walnut

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It was either a double SPAD leaving the siding or it was an infrastructure failure. Today they were doing 'destructive testing', whatever that is.
 

Expression357

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Operational incident is correct in the form of a double SPAD.
The need for “destructive testing” is because the SPAD is alleged to have not been a SPAD at all. The driver suggests the signals were at proceed; the system detected a SPAD.
If the driver can see a proceed on the ground when the system should be displaying a Red, then that is a Wrong Side Failure and needs to be thoroughly investigated. Hence the intrusive testing required today.
 

king_walnut

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There are catch points in that siding that are always set when the signal is at danger, but the train ran back into platform 2. Fairly interesting case.
 

RichardKing

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Very interesting case indeed by the sounds for it - thanks for your input everyone.

I've seen an increasing number of people getting frustrated at the vague term 'operational incident', especially when the social media team provide the same explanation over and over again. I know they can't give full specifics of each incident, but something like 'a safety-critical incident that requires further investigation' (as in this example) would most likely attract more understanding.
 

bengley

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There are catch points in that siding that are always set when the signal is at danger, but the train ran back into platform 2. Fairly interesting case.
Sounds like the signal must have been showing a proceed then. Would be interesting to hear more about this if possible!
 

Trainfan344

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Will this result in a RAIB report or is it not a reportable incident?
 

king_walnut

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Sounds like the signal must have been showing a proceed then. Would be interesting to hear more about this if possible!

You would have to be in an incredibly bad way to leave those sidings on a red, and then pass the second red (which has a platform indicator) and end up back in platform 2.
 

bengley

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mNtog7C.png


layout of the area for anyone interested
 

Surreytraveller

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It was either a double SPAD leaving the siding or it was an infrastructure failure. Today they were doing 'destructive testing', whatever that is.
Destructive testing basically means something is taken apart piece by piece and every component tested to find out what's gone wrong
It occurs when something is alleged to have failed in an unsafe manner
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Destructive testing basically means something is taken apart piece by piece and every component tested to find out what's gone wrong
It occurs when something is alleged to have failed in an unsafe manner
No forward facing camera on the unit involved presumably to corroborate the drivers report so destructive testing required
 

ComUtoR

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Whenever we have had a dispute; NR pull the data from the signal. Isn't there some form of 'Signal data logger'. Local CCTV is also pulled during an investigation. Any CCTV in the Sidings ?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Whenever we have had a dispute; NR pull the data from the signal. Isn't there some form of 'Signal data logger'. Local CCTV is also pulled during an investigation. Any CCTV in the Sidings ?
On Relay Interlockings data logging has generally been installed but potentially at Ore being a modified mechanical box (Hastings i believe) it might not be installed. Note data logging comes built in with modern electronic signalling.
 

bengley

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So are the alleged signals SPADed EDL22 and EDL26 ground signals coming off the siding?
I would assume so. I do wonder whether 26 has cleared and hence the train hasn't been routed down the disused line to the right (the points will be set for this when 26 is at danger)

22 being at danger should only put the train back into 2 unless there are trap points protecting the main line (which I would hope there are)
 

4069

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mNtog7C.png


layout of the area for anyone interested
That diagram is incorrect- signal EDL 14 is on the disused carriage sidings connection, which is/was between the crossover in advance of EDL22 and platform 2. The disused connection shown on the diagram was to the CEGB siding, and its exit signal was EDL29.
 

bengley

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That diagram is incorrect- signal EDL 14 is on the disused carriage sidings connection, which is/was between the crossover in advance of EDL22 and platform 2. The disused connection shown on the diagram was to the CEGB siding, and its exit signal was EDL29.
That is an official Southern issued map. It wouldn't be the first time a route map was wrong!
 

alistairlees

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I’m on the 18.26 Cannon Street to Ore, which is only going as far as Hastings tonight.

The train manager has said that trains cannot terminate at Ore “due to an operational incident still under investigation.”

I don’t think anyone understood what that meant.
 

hwl

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I’m on the 18.26 Cannon Street to Ore, which is only going as far as Hastings tonight.

The train manager has said that trains cannot terminate at Ore “due to an operational incident still under investigation.”

I don’t think anyone understood what that meant.

Still investigation not even being rectified yet...
 

bengley

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I would imagine the sidings are out of use. The length of time this has been going on suggests there may have been a problem with the signalling.
 

GB

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The length of time this has been going on suggests there may have been a problem with the signalling.

Not necessarily. There's a huge amount of wrong side failure testing to do in these situations and in this case they are also still trying to run some kind of train service.
 
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