TRIVIA: Bus and tram networks with no ticket machines or on-board ticket sales

AY1975 · 18 Feb 2020

On most bus, tram and light rail systems in mainland Europe (and in many other parts of the world) they either have ticket machines at some or all stops, or else you can buy a ticket on board the bus or tram either from the driver (or conductor, though crew-operated buses and trams are very rare nowadays) or from a machine.

But I think there are some networks that do not have ticket purchase facilities either at the stops or on-board, so you have to buy a ticket from one of the various outlets that sell them (e.g. convenience stores, newsagents, tobacconists, tourist information centres, hotel and hostel reception desks). How many networks do you know of where this is the case?

It can be a real pain if you have to go out of your way to find a ticket outlet or if you arrive late at night when no such outlets are open so you have to take a taxi which costs you more than the bus or tram would cost if you could get a ticket.

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farci · 18 Feb 2020

You should also include online purchase through an app which is becoming more popular and very convenient

AY1975 · 18 Feb 2020

farci said:
You should also include online purchase through an app which is becoming more popular and very convenient

That's fine as long as you have a smartphone (which not everyone does).

Sir Felix Pole · 18 Feb 2020

I can't think of a system where tickets have to be exclusively bought from an 'outlet' , but there are plenty where it is the favoured method. On-board purchases are generally more expensive, with perhaps only single-tickets issued, whilst first generation tramways as rule do not have ticket-machines at stops. Typically on visiting a city I like to go for a 'day-ticket', and as you say if arriving late it can be an issue.

Austria has the particular curiosity of street-corner tobacco kiosks - Austrians are notoriously heavy smokers - and these are the usual place for getting tram-tickets in Vienna. In Salzburg, whilst touring the trolleybus network, a kiosk was right outside my hotel which was rather convenient.

As has been said apps are becoming available to solve the problem - I managed (eventually) to get a day-ticket for The Hague / Delft system by this route.

Belperpete · 18 Feb 2020

I seem to recall that getting a ticket for the trams in Budapest was a bit of an issue. Had to walk from my hotel to a ticket office in Szell Kalman Ter, where they didn't speak English.

AlbertBeale · 19 Feb 2020

I think I've been in big cities in Italy where you can't get a ticket on the bus/tram (and no machines at stops either), so you have to find a ticket outlet. It's as bad as London is for visitors!

Bletchleyite · 19 Feb 2020

Sir Felix Pole said:
I can't think of a system where tickets have to be exclusively bought from an 'outlet' , but there are plenty where it is the favoured method.

I'm almost certain that that is the norm in Romania, certainly Bucharest. Though by "outlet" this does include small newsagent/sweet kiosks you get actually at bus stops, which are perhaps a bit Merseyrail Mtogo-ish. It was very confusing if you arrived at Baneasa airport, certainly. (Not in use any more I think).

What's notable is that there's nothing to indicate that this is the case at all until you're on board when you might be accosted by the Penalty Fare "babushkas"[1] who don't take any prisoners! Though due to the exchange rate a PF is reasonably affordable and isn't a criminal matter (about a tenner I think).

[1] It appears these work under contract in some form, possibly buying pre-paid PF "tickets" and "reselling" them as needed.

Ianno87 · 19 Feb 2020

AlbertBeale said:
I think I've been in big cities in Italy where you can't get a ticket on the bus/tram (and no machines at stops either), so you have to find a ticket outlet. It's as bad as London is for visitors!

The Salerno 'Metropolitana' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salerno_metropolitan_railway_service) is like this. Other than at Salerno main station, none of the stops have ticket machines, nor can you buy on board. You have to buy single tickets from vaguely nearby Tobacconists (once you work out where they are). We were staying near Arbostella station for a week. After the faff on the first day, we just bought weekly tickets from the machines at Salerno, which ended up much more convenient and better value!

Despite being called 'Metropolitana' it is actually a half-hourly service run by Trenitalia, on a bi-directional single line (with loops) alongside the two-track Salerno - Reggio Calabria Main line.

Birdbrain · 19 Feb 2020

Last year I tried to travel on a WeGo bus from Niagara Falls to the railway station. Driver couldn’t issue tickets or accept payment. I later found out you had to buy from an outlet only. Luckily, it was the last bus of the day so the driver let us on for free.

dutchflyer · 20 Feb 2020

Traditionally this was ALL of communist Eastern-EUR/city transp., and also ITaly-for some reason up till now even country busdrivers will not sell any tickets. This is called biglietteria a terra (tickets on the ground).
As a very recent development SE=Sweden uses very. very modern styles and expects each and anyone to have a mobile fone and that is here and there about the only way to pay. THe major prob is then that you have to pay electronic or via fone-credit, which is about impossible if you have a foreign fone.
And to my big surprise; that USA, always very fearful of handling cash-put the exact amount in some farebox, is now also more and more starting over to apps on the fone or chipcards that have to be purchased before riding transit.

dutchflyer · 20 Feb 2020

Belperpete said:
I seem to recall that getting a ticket for the trams in Budapest was a bit of an issue. Had to walk from my hotel to a ticket office in Szell Kalman Ter, where they didn't speak English.

By now nearly all decent HTLs in Bp sell singles for their guests. Or they could easily have told you where to get. By now also about all main tramstops have very easy to use automats. A nice thing here is that for seasons that are personal, ANY offical ID can be used- just enter the coded nrs. of it. But then -this is a train forum-how did you reach that HTL anyway? ANY trainstation has loads of ticket selling options. This is again (see also the Bucuresti item) something where those old-fashioned things called guidebooks can enlighten you. And yes, sorry to say, most often its the Brits, too naive to even think of other possibilities as their own, get caught out.
Remember well that when I visited the USA for to see their trams/light rail, I had to study everywhere on how to pay and get the best value tickets. Seattle (perhaps even before their cf roll out) had 1 US$ SUNday rovers (at that time it was the normal single fare on other days).

Bletchleyite · 20 Feb 2020

dutchflyer said:
And yes, sorry to say, most often its the Brits, too naive to even think of other possibilities as their own, get caught out.

To be fair we do have one network that has neither ticket sales on board nor TVMs - London buses.

Panceltic · 22 Feb 2020

Buses in Ljubljana (Slovenia) only accept payments with a smartcard (called Urbana) which can be bought and topped up at self-service machines or in various tobacconist/shops.

paddington · 22 Feb 2020

Buses in Istanbul only take fares with a smartcard, which can be purchased at TVMs in metro or tram stops using specific denominations of banknotes only (10 and 20 lira - I tried 5 and coins and these didn't work even though there is a coin slot). It may be possible to buy and top up using bank cards at shops/kiosks that are set up for it.

jamesontheroad · 22 Feb 2020

dutchflyer said:
As a very recent development SE=Sweden uses very. very modern styles and expects each and anyone to have a mobile fone and that is here and there about the only way to pay. THe major prob is then that you have to pay electronic or via fone-credit, which is about impossible if you have a foreign fone.

Sweden is indeed a little unfriendly in this regard. We immigrated here last summer and couldn’t really engage with some of the farmers’ markets because the only acceptable form of payment was “Swish” - a smart phone enabled payment system.

In my new hometown and in most Swedish towns and cities, you can use a debit card to buy a ticket on the bus, but you will pay a lot more compared to prepayment on an app. In Umeå I think it’s 35kr versus 27kr.

dutchflyer · 5 Mar 2020

Thats small peanuts. In NL many onthebus tickets may cost up to twice or eve more as the prepaid fare on the OV-chipsmartcard. And even more if you would qualify for reduced fare, only available on the card. Though there are also cases for very long regional buses where the ticket cost less as the chipcardprice which goes by the KM.
In the USA its now often the case that NO transfer slips are issued anymore, so cashpayers cough up the fare twice but those with cards/prepaid only once and often also at a lower price. Though to compensate and as most return also later in the day they offer daytickets at near double the normal single price.
Back to the subject; In old commy times in East-Eur and the yrs just after it as pretty common for people to board a citybus and ask for anyone willing to sell tickets? Late eve or sunday when many kiosks were closed. Anyone would know the price and many people bought them in stockbooks of 100. you had to hole-punch them to validate. Or even for people to look for discarded tix, as this system would able re-use in the very same car.

JonasB · 5 Mar 2020

dutchflyer said:
As a very recent development SE=Sweden uses very. very modern styles and expects each and anyone to have a mobile fone and that is here and there about the only way to pay. THe major prob is then that you have to pay electronic or via fone-credit, which is about impossible if you have a foreign fone.

True, but to be fair in most parts of the country you can buy a ticket from the driver, although not with cash. And as far as I know most apps will accept Visa and Mastercard, as well as Swish.

LesS · 7 Mar 2020

Sydney has been using a smartcard for some time now. The area of operation extends for 100 miles or more radius from the city and includes Newcastle/Hunter Valley as well as Wollongong. The point was quickly reached when cash was no longer acceptable on buses, trams, ferries and trains. There are single journey ticket machines at railway stations otherwise you obtain a card from a reseller; convenience store/newsagent etc. Credit cards can now be used on all readers on all transport forms.

I have always found when travelling to explore first just what the ticketing arrangements were for cities I would be visiting. This has saved me considerable expense in fares and inconvenience.

jamesontheroad · 8 Mar 2020

dutchflyer said:
As a very recent development SE=Sweden uses very. very modern styles and expects each and anyone to have a mobile fone and that is here and there about the only way to pay. THe major prob is then that you have to pay electronic or via fone-credit, which is about impossible if you have a foreign fone.

JonasB said:
True, but to be fair in most parts of the country you can buy a ticket from the driver, although not with cash. And as far as I know most apps will accept Visa and Mastercard, as well as Swish.

I don’t want to get distracted from the question posed by the original post, but this week I hit another break wall similar to the problems described above. I work for a public organisation, and very occasionally I need to drive to work. I’m entitled to a staff discount on daily and monthly parking (25kr/day instead of 70kr), but this rate is only available through the proprietary iOS and Android apps of the parking provider (and not nationally available apps like Parkster, which let you pay for lots of different parking companies). The developers only listed the app in the Swedish version of the iOS App Store. Since I still have quite a few important subscriptions and my music library tied to my UK Apple account, I can’t yet just switch my Apple account from UK to Sweden. So the app simply doesn’t appear when I search for it or try to download it. As a result I have to pay for the full price parking using Parkster or one of the few remaining parking machines.

Yes - it’s only the second or third time I’ve been excluded from using a service since I moved here, but given that the parking company has no alternative for this particular product, it was a reminder that we have to keep hassling companies and service providers to remember that not everyone can avail of these technologies... often for very minor technical reasons.

U-Bahnfreund · 11 Mar 2020

In Berlin, BVG is suspending on-board ticket selling by bus drivers and front-door entry from tomorrow, 12 March, to reduce the chance of contracting the coronavirus. Passengers are told to use ticketing apps, ticket machines at metro stations or larger bus stations or buy tickets in advance at kiosks or customer centres.

https://www.bvg.de/de/Unternehmen/Medien/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Detailansicht?newsid=3792

scarby · 11 Mar 2020

dutchflyer said:
As a very recent development SE=Sweden uses very. very modern styles and expects each and anyone to have a mobile fone and that is here and there about the only way to pay. THe major prob is then that you have to pay electronic or via fone-credit, which is about impossible if you have a foreign fone.

In Stockholm there is an Access card, similar to Oyster, on which you can load up season tickets or put money on to be debited (like Oyster) when you make a single journey. You can load it with debit card at machines at stations, some shops (agents) where you could use cash and even with cash at the local train and metro station barrier kiosks.

Elsewhere where I’ve been in Sweden you can pay bus drivers directly with a debit/credit card.

In Gothenburg there are ticket machines on the trams.

I’ve never used a phone to pay for a journey in Sweden, ever. Though yes, if you were in the outer parts of Stockholm region without a (loaded) Access card you are correct - you’d need to buy a phone ticket to use a bus. I do agree that that is poor.

TRIVIA: Bus and tram networks with no ticket machines or on-board ticket sales

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