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TfW extends Welsh language announcements to 170 stations

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krus_aragon

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A quick translation (by yours truly) of a article published in Welsh on the BBC's website, describing a new automated announcement system:

Welsh announcements will be available in over 170 railway stations by the end of March, according to Transport for Wales.

In July of last year, a report on behalf of the Welsh Language Commisioner stated that Welsh ministers were breaking the law by not ensuring that Welsh services were provided on Transport for Wales trains.

The new service was trialled in Porthmadog, Trefforest Estate, Skewen, Hengoed and Pontyclun at the end of last year.

Amazon and IVONA are the owners of the new technology, known as Geraint, which can provide Welsh language travel announcements and notice of last minute changes.

There are 222 railway stations in Wales. TfW say only a quarter of these had a system that worked in Welsh. The rest had an old text-to-speech system that had trouble pronouncing Welsh.

A spokesperson for the Welsh Language Commissioner said: "The lack of Welsh audio announcements in stations and trains was among the complaints in our investigation of Transport for Wales' Welsh language services.

"A number of other complaints were part of the commisioner's investigation.

"We are now in the appeal phase, when Welsh Ministers can appeal against our final ajudication. We can not make any further comment until the end of that period."

Gweirydd Davies, Head of Welsh Strategy at Transport for Wales, said: "Creating a bilingual transport system is a priority for us at TfW and we are working with the Commisioner's Office to ensure we achieve our aims.

"'Geraint' will make a positive difference for our Welsh-speaking customers.

"The old technology was not fit for purpose with regard to Welsh, so we had to find a new solution and develop it ourselves.

"It is a step in the right direction toward making our network bilingual and we look forward to similar developments in our on-board announcement systems."

I've heard some of the old automated text-to-speech announcements that this system replaces. It really did manage to mangle just about any placename given to it.

Has anyone encountered this new system out in the wild?
 
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mmh

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A quick translation (by yours truly) of a article published in Welsh on the BBC's website, describing a new automated announcement system:



I've heard some of the old automated text-to-speech announcements that this system replaces. It really did manage to mangle just about any placename given to it.

Has anyone encountered this new system out in the wild?

I don't think so, at least if it's a system for manually entered announcements. The "regular" automated announcements in Welsh at Llandudno Junction seem spot on*, while confusingly Deganwy has gained automated announcements in the past year but in English only.

It's welcome news for anyone who dislikes garbled announcements in any language.

*spot on in legibility. They seem to have found someone with an incredibly neutral accent to record them. Which I suppose makes sense, but being biased I do like the very local pronunciation Arriva use on their buses with auto announcements in North Wales.
 

Bevan Price

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Will the next step include train announcements in Welsh for TfW departures from stations such as Lerpwl Lime Street, Manceinion Piccadilly, Caer (Chester) or Amwythig (Shrewsbury)
 

Parallel

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I don't think so, at least if it's a system for manually entered announcements. The "regular" automated announcements in Welsh at Llandudno Junction seem spot on*, while confusingly Deganwy has gained automated announcements in the past year but in English only.

It's welcome news for anyone who dislikes garbled announcements in any language.

*spot on in legibility. They seem to have found someone with an incredibly neutral accent to record them. Which I suppose makes sense, but being biased I do like the very local pronunciation Arriva use on their buses with auto announcements in North Wales.

I guess it’s best to have a neutral Welsh accent as the system in use at Llandudno Junction is also in use at stations in South Wales such as Carmarthen and Pontypridd too.

Will the next step include train announcements in Welsh for TfW departures from stations such as Lerpwl Lime Street, Manceinion Piccadilly, Caer (Chester) or Amwythig (Shrewsbury)
Doubt it, because there’s no obligation to do so.

Many TfW stations had at least text to speech announcements when they took over, even the likes of Sugar Loaf and the tiny Llanbedr, and every station had an electronic departure board. Impressive, especially when compared to other TOCs. I’d imagine the WG must’ve footed the bill for some of that though...
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Anyone notice how the Chancellor mangled "Llanymynech" in his budget speech today?
That's an odd one with the Powys/Shropshire border practically running down the main street. :)
Allegedly there are pubs with one part in Wales and another in England, which was interesting when licensing hours were different in the two counties.
The village of Pant at the other end of the proposed bypass on the A483, despite its Welsh name, is in England.
Both railway stations, when they existed, were in England.

Knighton is another place with the town in Wales (Tref-y-Clawdd, meaning Dike Village) but its station in England across the River Teme/Afon Tefeidiad.
 

mmh

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Will the next step include train announcements in Welsh for TfW departures from stations such as Lerpwl Lime Street, Manceinion Piccadilly, Caer (Chester) or Amwythig (Shrewsbury)

No. I suppose these sorts of replies were inevitable, but no there is no prospect of that, nor Smethwick Galton Bridge acquiring bilingual signage. They're simply complying with the Welsh Language Act, 30 years on.
 

Djgr

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Will the next step include train announcements in Welsh for TfW departures from stations such as Lerpwl Lime Street, Manceinion Piccadilly, Caer (Chester) or Amwythig (Shrewsbury)

I was brought up on the Wirral and I had school friends who were Welsh speaking at home. And I would expect everyone to know that Birkenhead in Welsh is Penbedw.
 
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krus_aragon

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Will the next step include train announcements in Welsh for TfW departures from stations such as Lerpwl Lime Street, Manceinion Piccadilly, Caer (Chester) or Amwythig (Shrewsbury)
Station announcements, no. On-board announcements, I suspect yes.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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Station announcements, no. On-board announcements, I suspect yes.

I think that's correct. Existing station announcements in Welsh use Welsh names for places in England so presumably on-board announcements will do the same. Most of the names are pretty familiar to Welsh speakers, although Caersallog for Salisbury may be a bridge too far!
 

Parallel

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I think that's correct. Existing station announcements in Welsh use Welsh names for places in England so presumably on-board announcements will do the same. Most of the names are pretty familiar to Welsh speakers, although Caersallog for Salisbury may be a bridge too far!
Only GWR DMUs run from Wales to Salisbury, and I don’t believe that GWR are fully committed to providing Welsh announcements on board (although have previously said they’re looking into it) Maybe they will be pushed to though, eventually.

There are some station recordings where the Welsh name is not announced. I think Leominster is one, Caldicot is another.
 

ainsworth74

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Enough. We've discussed the Welsh language on several occasions before and those who are anti-Welsh language are not going to persuade those who are pro-Welsh to suddenly change their mind or vice versa. Plus its the law of the land and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

So let's leave it there and any further posts on the subject are liable for deletion or other sanctions as appropriate.
 

MarkWiles

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Having learned Welsh I was pleasantly surprised to learn that my old local station, Lichfield, has a Welsh name of Caerlwytgoed. I doubt it will ever get announced in Welsh anywhere.
 

anamyd

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That's quite an interesting link, I've just put some tricky Welsh place names into it and it's done a reasonable job of pronouncing the majority!
I haven't tried that but I did put this in:

Y trên nesaf i gyrraedd platfform 1 fydd y gwasanaeth un o'r gloch Trafnidiaeth Cymru i Caerdydd Canolog.
(The next train to arrive at platform 1 will be the 1300 Transport for Wales service to Cardiff Central.)

Shame we can't hear Geraint's version!
 

rf_ioliver

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Having learned Welsh I was pleasantly surprised to learn that my old local station, Lichfield, has a Welsh name of Caerlwytgoed. I doubt it will ever get announced in Welsh anywhere.

It is actually surprising to note how many places in the UK as a whole are Welsh in some form, eg: Dover, Kent, Edinburgh -> Dwfr, Caint, Caeredin. Then places such as Aberdeen, Glasgow are more or less changes in orthography/spelling
 

Tomos y Tanc

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It is actually surprising to note how many places in the UK as a whole are Welsh in some form, eg: Dover, Kent, Edinburgh -> Dwfr, Caint, Caeredin. Then places such as Aberdeen, Glasgow are more or less changes in orthography/spelling

Well, strictly speaking, many of them are Brythonic rather than Welsh but it is interesting, as are the various versions of our history. As an example, many years ago, at my Welsh-speaking comp, I was taught that the key event of 1066 was the fall of the Welsh kingdom of Ystrad Clud / Strathclyde to the Scots rather than anything that went on in Hastings.
 

Spartacus

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Quite, there was inevitably a lot of overlap with the old Celtic/Britannic languages, which can sometimes make old place names sound more Welsh than they are as they're often the only obvious remnant of the old local language/dialect, while Welsh is the most common of the old languages, though there's the odd curious example of the reverse. There's some belief that Cynwyl Elfed gained it's name as the land the last king of Elmet, Ceretic, was granted after he and his followers fled the fall of Elmet, whose death was recorded in the Annales Cambriae.

Anyway, that's going seriously off topic! Even if the Gwili reopens the station I won't pester them for an ".....In-Elmet" name board :lol::lol:
 
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mmh

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I don't think so, at least if it's a system for manually entered announcements. The "regular" automated announcements in Welsh at Llandudno Junction seem spot on*, while confusingly Deganwy has gained automated announcements in the past year but in English only.

Which as of today has changed and appears to be the new bilingual system. Unusually there were 4 other people waiting, the most I've seen there in years!
 

Parallel

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Which as of today has changed and appears to be the new bilingual system. Unusually there were 4 other people waiting, the most I've seen there in years!
Maybe they wanted to hear the new Welsh text-to-speech announcements. :D
 

mmh

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Do they sound from both platforms at once, or is there an echo? :p

(Ah, the joys of a "failed post" actually getting through the first time...)

:)

I'm happy to report that nobody appeared confused or outraged by the announcement and none of us missed our train.
 

mmh

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Maybe they wanted to hear the new Welsh text-to-speech announcements. :D

And they should! The quality is superb. Clear and concise. I could do without the inevitable "operated by" suffix, but that's a sad given these days. As a system for unstaffed and request stops, it seems very good. Conwy doesn't seem to have it yet, but presumably everywhere will in time.
 

Parallel

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And they should! The quality is superb. Clear and concise. I could do without the inevitable "operated by" suffix, but that's a sad given these days. As a system for unstaffed and request stops, it seems very good. Conwy doesn't seem to have it yet, but presumably everywhere will in time.
Conwy uses older style dot matrix boards that aren’t capable of putting out audio as far as I know. Maybe they’ll be replaced at some point. These older boards are also at Blaenau Ffestiniog, Prestatyn, Llansamlet and a good chunk of the Valleys network, to name a few locations.
 

Wtloild

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Station announcements, no. On-board announcements, I suspect yes.
Was on a single through-train from Liege to Brugge last year.
Was strange how the language of the onboard announcements & the electronic displays changed instantly as we crossed over the regional boundaries.
- French only in Wallonia
- Dutch only in Flanders
- Dual languages whilst crossing Brussels region
- Dutch only when back in Flanders again

A lot of effort clearly gone into minimal legal linguistic compliance.
 

TheWalrus

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Only GWR DMUs run from Wales to Salisbury, and I don’t believe that GWR are fully committed to providing Welsh announcements on board (although have previously said they’re looking into it) Maybe they will be pushed to though, eventually.

There are some station recordings where the Welsh name is not announced. I think Leominster is one, Caldicot is another.
Add all the Parkways, Worcestershire Parkway, Worcester, University, Plymouth, Wildmill, any Central, Nantwich and probably many more I’ve not mentioned yet. Surprisingly Oxford gets pronounced in it’s Welsh form “Rhydychen”.
 

Parallel

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Add all the Parkways, Worcestershire Parkway, Worcester, University, Plymouth, Wildmill, any Central, Nantwich and probably many more I’ve not mentioned yet. Surprisingly Oxford gets pronounced in it’s Welsh form “Rhydychen”.

Leicester, York, Edinburgh, Exeter (St David’s and St Thomas) and Bath are also announced in Welsh.
 

TheWalrus

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Leicester, York, Edinburgh, Exeter (St David’s and St Thomas) and Bath are also announced in Welsh.
That’s true however most of those get at least daily services to those destinations. Oxford doesn’t get any unless there’s engineering works or something which is why I was surprised they had a recording for it!

were there previously regular services from Wales to Oxford?
 
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