TPE - Northern route allocations.

RailWonderer · 13 Mar 2020

Why does TPE run the Manchester - Huddersfield and Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers but Northern run the Leeds - York stopper - does this go back to the BR era? I would have thought Northern ran every stopper but there are some exceptions with TPE.

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yrreb · 13 Mar 2020

RailWonderer said:
Why does TPE run the Manchester - Huddersfield and Huddersfield - Leeds stoppers but Northern run the Leeds - York stopper - does this go back to the BR era? I would have thought Northern ran every stopper but there are some exceptions with TPE.

The local services from Manchester to Leeds were taken over by TPE in May 2018 and was part of the problems with performance because it ran through without the current split at Huddersfield. What it meant to take the local services over is that for the most part the route would be TPE only (minus Mirfield to Leeds with the Northern service via Hebden Bridge).

I would say that it calls for consistency but all local stations on the route are managed by Northern even though some now don't have any Northern services!

RailWonderer · 13 Mar 2020

Another one is the Manchester - Sheffield stopper. That cuts centre of the Peak District and is on the TPE route to Cleethorpes so why is Northern still running that stopper as well? Now with Northern Trains as the DfTs shop, I wouldn't be surprised to see them outsource more routes to TPE if they can. Although Windemere/Barrow went the opposite way.

Spartacus · 14 Mar 2020

yrreb said:
I would say that it calls for consistency but all local stations on the route are managed by Northern even though some now don't have any Northern services!

Although Ravensthorpe and Cottingley have quite a sparse Northern service, they do still get 4 trains a day except Sundays.

Revaulx · 14 Mar 2020

Spartacus said:
Although Ravensthorpe and Cottingley have quite a sparse Northern service, they do still get 4 trains a day except Sundays.

It’s the stations between Stalyvegas and Hudds that are TPE only. Until May last year Northern still ran stoppers in the peaks, but these have now been replaced by peak only stops on the Hull service. Not a popular change; it slows down the Hulls and eliminates the chances of users of the local stations getting a seat.

wellhouse · 14 Mar 2020

Revaulx said:
Not a popular change; it.... eliminates the chances of users of the local stations getting a seat.

Not in my experience: the evening peak services from Hull depart Leeds immediately after the service from Scarborough, and there are plenty of seats. It's also worth noting that stopping services running via Guide Bridge to Piccadilly take about the same time from Huddersfield as 'fast' services via Victoria.

nr758123 · 14 Mar 2020

Revaulx said:
It’s the stations between Stalyvegas and Hudds that are TPE only. Until May last year Northern still ran stoppers in the peaks, but these have now been replaced by peak only stops on the Hull service. Not a popular change; it slows down the Hulls and eliminates the chances of users of the local stations getting a seat.

Quite the contrary. Restoring the half-hourly peak service at Slaithwaite & Marsden which existed (from before privatisation) until May 2018 is very much welcomed. It should never have been taken away in the first place. Having some through trains to Leeds at peak times is also popular.

If the downside of this is that Hull to Manchester passengers take a few minutes longer in the peaks, then that's the sort of compromise that results from the route being at capacity. Of course if the Transpennine Route Upgrade had been done, this sort of compromise might not have been necessary.

VT 390 · 14 Mar 2020

wellhouse said:
Not in my experience: the evening peak services from Hull depart Leeds immediately after the service from Scarborough, and there are plenty of seats. It's also worth noting that stopping services running via Guide Bridge to Piccadilly take about the same time from Huddersfield as 'fast' services via Victoria.

How busy are the services to Hull from Manchester in the evening peak though?

Staffordian · 14 Mar 2020

I would imagine they are very busy, as they leave Piccadilly at xx30 and take 61 mins to Leeds (with 6 stops) just ahead of the xx34 to Newcastle, which takes 66 mins to Leeds (with 4 stops including Oxford Road and Victoria).
Whether they are carrying many passengers to Selby, Brough and Hull is another matter.

RailWonderer · 14 Mar 2020

VT 390 said:
How busy are the services to Hull from Manchester in the evening peak though?

Many Hull - Manchester 185s are 6 car now and the ones I have seen have mostly been well loaded with only a few standing if any. Altogether a major improvement.

30907 · 15 Mar 2020

RailWonderer said:
Another one is the Manchester - Sheffield stopper. That cuts centre of the Peak District and is on the TPE route to Cleethorpes so why is Northern still running that stopper as well? Now with Northern Trains as the DfTs shop, I wouldn't be surprised to see them outsource more routes to TPE if they can. Although Windemere/Barrow went the opposite way.

It's run as part of the service via Marple so swapping it to TPE or EMT makes no sense. Northern also operate plenty of routes out of Sheffield (it would make sense for them to share the Hope Valley but that's one of those RRNE/RRNW splits pre privatisation.)

TPE - Northern route allocations.

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