Coronavirus.

AM9 said:

Good point. Actually a three-month solitary confinement could put some on the road to dementia. Phone conversations without visual contact don't necessarily provide enough social interaction to stave off all of the effects of isolation.

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Weather should be warming up a bit. I am planning on regularly sitting in my dad’s garden (a good distance apart) and having a chat. No cups of tea or anything that involves us both touching something.
I bet Facebook Portal are ordering as many units as they can!

AM9 said:

I have generally got information from radio news initially and BBC news websites for the detail. Neither of those are 'behind paywalls'. Even the most tech un-savvy person can listen to a radio, and it's free all day every day.

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So do I. However as @ainsworth74 points out the issue

There needs to be 1 public face and route of communication

DarloRich said:

So do I. However as @ainsworth74 points out the issue

There needs to be 1 public face and route of communication

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A modern day Ian McDonald?

FelixtheCat said:

Slightly off topic, but I honestly find the BBC World Service a far better source than the BBC domestic news. I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to though.

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Perhaps the World Service simply reports the news rather than trying to MAKE it.

I always find it grating when the announcer says "This is the BBC News", rather than "This is the news from the BBC". There is a subtle difference.

furnessvale said:

Perhaps the World Service simply reports the news rather than trying to MAKE it.

I always find it grating when the announcer says "This is the BBC News", rather than "This is the news from the BBC". There is a subtle difference.

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Still a million times better than any of the guff that comes out of the USA.

JonathanH said:

One interesting thing about the timing of this - next weekend is Mothering Sunday / Mothers Day - a time when traditionally families come together - restrictions enforced for over 70s might mean for many it is the last time they see family members for some time - it also might run the risk of spreading the virus around families.

One other thought about isolating over 70s is the lack of exercise and mental stimulation they will have - this will also have a debilitating effect on them - obviously not as much of a risk of the virus but not negligible either.

Careful consideration needed.

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If my late mum had been isolated, she would have been 89, very advanced Alzhiemers, couldn't feed herself let alone prepare a meal, needs two people to dress, toilet and clean her, and most of all cannot communicate verbally at all (every word was incoherent).
That situation now won't exist for me, but there are thousands of elderly in exactly the same position, cared for at home by family with the assistance of a multitude of agency carers.
What the heck are they supposed to do??

What happened to all those "cancel the license fee" protests?

On at least two different days I've seen coronavirus stories on all 10 of the "most read" entries on the bbc website. I don't remember ever seeing a story like that before.

The difference in reactions is interesting. On the one hand, you have the mass panic buying of, initially pasta and loo rolls, but now just about everything. An assistant at my local supermarket said yesterday was worse than Christmas, and today was looking to be even worse, with a long queue of people waiting for the doors to open so they could get in before everything loaded on the shelves overnight vanished again. And on the other hand, you have the "bulldog" mentality, of people who will battle on regardless - the kind of people who always turn up for work regardless of how ill they are. The carriage I travelled in yesterday was full of people coughing, sneezing, sniffing and snot-snorting - the woman in the bay behind was coughing and sniffing every few seconds. No doubt they were all saying to themselves "it's only a cold, no need to self-isolate" and probably they were right, but in awhile these will be exactly the kind of people determined to keep going who will be busy transmitting the Covid-19 to everyone else.

Belperpete said:

And on the other hand, you have the "bulldog" mentality, of people who will battle on regardless - the kind of people who always turn up for work regardless of how ill they are. The carriage I travelled in yesterday was full of people coughing, sneezing, sniffing and snot-snorting - the woman in the bay behind was coughing and sniffing every few seconds. No doubt they were all saying to themselves "it's only a cold, no need to self-isolate" and probably they were right, but in awhile these will be exactly the kind of people determined to keep going who will be busy transmitting the Covid-19 to everyone else.

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What strikes me is that all containment / delay approaches rely on good citizenship, something that is even shorter supply than bogroll given the last few years. Two minutes driving a car tells you about the levels. They are doomed to failure.

433N said:

What strikes me is that all containment / delay approaches rely on good citizenship, something that is even shorter supply than bogroll given the last few years. Two minutes driving a car tells you about the levels. They are doomed to failure.

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Spot on. We have become a very self-centred country.

BlueFox said:

Our family has postponed mothers day until the situation improves. My mum has a lung condition that means she's in the high risk category.

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North America celebrates it in May, perhaps that'll be a good date to reschedule for?

furnessvale said:

Perhaps the World Service simply reports the news rather than trying to MAKE it.

I always find it grating when the announcer says "This is the BBC News", rather than "This is the news from the BBC". There is a subtle difference.

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Not so subtle!

433N said:

What strikes me is that all containment / delay approaches rely on good citizenship, something that is even shorter supply than bogroll given the last few years. Two minutes driving a car tells you about the levels. They are doomed to failure.

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To an extent the delay approach actually relies on some poor citizenship. Unless you think you can eradicate Covid you need most people to do it right whilst some disobedience keeps infections running through at a manageable level. Otherwise you might be delaying the peak, not flattening it.

miami said:

What happened to all those "cancel the license fee" protests?

On at least two different days I've seen coronavirus stories on all 10 of the "most read" entries on the bbc website. I don't remember ever seeing a story like that before.

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Admittedly helped by the near constant procession of notifications being pushed to phones etc via the BBC News App...

Howardh said:

Those jet2 flights "turned back" - if some were close to final approach and were turned back, then they would have to land somewhere to take on fuel. In practice planes to Spain should have enough fuel to abort landing, return and get at least half-way back or more, but they certainly don't carry enough to return to the departure airport.

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They may well do, planes aren't necessarily refuelled at every stop. Not all airlines will have routine refuelling agreements at every airport. A few months ago there was much outrage from the Greta fanclub when it was publicised that BA regularly flew planes full of fuel as they would buy fuel in countries where they could more cheaply rather than optimise for fuel consumption.

News from the BBC that train companies are seeking a bailout as a result of falling passenger numbers. The picture shows SWR trains. I don't know why the link I've pasted below doesn't appear as a direct link. I will now try to copy the report itself.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51896169

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Image copyright Getty Images
The government is in talks with rail bosses to put emergency measures in place to deal with falling passenger numbers after the coronavirus outbreak.

Some train operators were already losing money but fewer fares will put even more pressure on their finances.

A senior industry source said fairly drastic measures might be required for train companies to survive.

At an industry meeting last week, passenger numbers were said to have fallen by up to 18% on certain lines.

However, another industry source acknowledged that the fall in passengers could be significantly higher.

They told the BBC that the number of passengers travelling through major UK train stations at peak times had dropped considerably in recent days.

Very up-to-date figures for the whole UK network are not known as many tickets are still not purchased digitally, so it takes some time for the data to filter through.

• What has gone wrong with rail franchising?

Under franchise agreements, train companies have a range of contractual obligations, which govern how many trains they run and restrict how much they can charge for tickets.

They are also required to make payments to the government to run services on parts of the rail network.

The number of trains, the price of tickets and the amount companies pay government are all calculated based on assumptions about passenger numbers.

But, with fewer people catching the train - as some companies ask staff to work from home over fears about the spread of the coronavirus - the ability of rail companies to meet some of those obligations is now in doubt.

Emergency talks
The BBC understands that train operators are in talks with government to renegotiate the terms of some of those contracts.

Train companies want the government to give them more wriggle room so they can keep operating services for essential travel for people working in the emergency services, even though broader passenger numbers have fallen.

Options being discussed are likely to include a reduction in the number of train services and flexibility over the payments that train companies make to government.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Transport said: "We recognise how difficult the current situation is for the transport sector and, across government, we are engaging with the sector's leadership to support workers, businesses and passengers."

433N said:

What strikes me is that all containment / delay approaches rely on good citizenship, something that is even shorter supply than bogroll given the last few years. Two minutes driving a car tells you about the levels. They are doomed to failure.

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This begs the question of what will happen if an imposed quarantine in a country falters (Italy would currently be the favorite for this)?

If after a few weeks, people have had enough and go outside, especially with warmer weather coming, and the numbers of people going out quickly snowballed, maybe in a matter of hours, it would be impossible for the authorities to stem, even with troops.

Here is an attempt by the Washington Post to illustrate the effect of such measures in a simple way:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...9MBdbnmZhpmQsfrdXnx3H3sNYoVLXNNUvige45volzpN4

bahnause said:

Here is an attempt by the Washington Post to illustrate the effect of such measures in a simple way:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...9MBdbnmZhpmQsfrdXnx3H3sNYoVLXNNUvige45volzpN4

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Interesting. Less is more it would seem.

I notice that South Korea appears to have slowed down new cases for the timebeing.

This appears to have been achieved with a high level of testing and quick identification of cases, rather than mass lock downs.

Robertj21a said:

I wouldn't expect redundancies but there is plenty of evidence emerging of major companies reducing the need for travel to meetings, relying on video conferencing Skype etc. Many expect this to become the norm in future.

Perhaps we won't need HS2 after all......

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Or maybe we'll need it more as people won't be justifying the high up front cost of owning a car and regional flights are nearly non existent.

France is reducing its train services to 50% of normal both in response to reduced demand but also to ensure a reliable service level is maintained should staffing issues begin to be an issue so its front line workers can get to/from there places of work.

Our TOCs should be directed by the Dept of Transport to do the same as well as being assured that all performance penalties associated with franchises are suspended but this government is operating as though nothing has changed. Everything has changed and there ongoing intransigence is just fueling the fires of panic which is going to do far worse damage than the virus itself.

scarby said:

This begs the question of what will happen if an imposed quarantine in a country falters (Italy would currently be the favorite for this)?

If after a few weeks, people have had enough and go outside, especially with warmer weather coming, and the numbers of people going out quickly snowballed, maybe in a matter of hours, it would be impossible for the authorities to stem, even with troops.

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That depends on how they get around and where they go. Just getting some exercise and fresh air has very little risk provided simple social distancing is maintained. Travelling in public transport or sharing a car with those who might be exposed would increase the risk drastically. And spending the evening in a crowded pub or enclosed entertainment venue would probably be the worst location to visit.

Getting in your car, travelling to the countryside and going for a walk or run would probably be the safest excercise. Going to the gym probably the worst...

I can’t see why you’d have to stay in your house to reduce risk. Staying away from public transport, spaces that lots of people use like gyms or pubs will do the trick.

I’m off work this week but am questioning if using the train to commute to work in the NHS is sensible next week. I’ve been going for the Dunkirk spirit so far but maybe it’s time to self isolate my car. Maybe the roads will be quiet...

Are operators suffering revenue loss, or merely reduced passenger numbers?
If, as is so often stated, the majority of tickets are now bought in advance, and a good proportion of those are season tickets, then the reduction in revenue reduction will not be as large as the reduction in passengers. Over a fairly short period of time Advance sales will presumably dry up as people will be uncertain whether they will be allowed to travel, giving an indication of which longer-distance services could be reduced.

JonathanH said:

No politician would choose to be in the current situation or wish it upon anyone else.

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And for that reason absolutely nobody should be attempting to make party political points from this. Sadly some have been doing so.

Debating the science using credible references is of course fine.

AM9 said:

Just getting some exercise and fresh air has very little risk provided simple social distancing is maintained.

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Indeed, and of course has substantial physical and psychological benefit. According to my phone, I have spent 34 hours walking this month so far, consuming 10K Kcal. Most of this has been on the streets, in parks, woodland or the nearby hills. Not continuing to do so would impact my waste-line, sleep patterns, probably alchohol consumption, and likely damage my cardiovascular system and mental health. Edit: add musculo-skeletal condition to that.

Avoid all enclosed spaces is good advice. Stay at home is not.

When I was in my teens, I quite often lied about my age. Luckily I am only 69 so I won't have to.

yorksrob said:

This appears to have been achieved with a high level of testing and quick identification of cases, rather than mass lock downs.

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They'll have to keep that going for the next 2 years.

We're at a stage where we are treating anyone with symptoms as having it and asking for voluntary isolation. I assume that SK isn't testing people without symptoms (mass pee-on-a-stick test would be ideal. Not the same stick though!), so not sure what wider spread testing would add for the UK other than getting more data.

Priorities for UK should be
1) Clearing bed blockers
2) Getting more ventilators made (can't exactly import them)
3) Preparing for the extreme measures about to come online

Bletchleyite said:

And for that reason absolutely nobody should be attempting to make party political points from this. Sadly some have been doing so.

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Councillors from two different parties near me are working together on a community support group, only reason I know that is because I recognise the names.

There is still a place for politics - the world goes on after all - but not on coronavirus. In less fractious times (i.e. pre-social-media) I'd have hoped for talk of a government of national unity to tackle the problem, but at the moment it seems that political capital will be made.

Talk on BBC News just now about the EU coordinating medical equipment, response and resources fairly across member states. UK interestingly seemingly being treated as also being 'in the tent' rather than a Third Country.

Especially important when the UK does not make all required equipment domestically. Ventilators for example are not currently made by any UK manufacturer.

Another bit of evidence, if it were needed, about what an unquestionably terrible idea Brexit is...when we're effectively now solely reliant on the (very welcome) goodwill of the EU27.

Ianno87 said:

Talk on BBC News just now about the EU coordinating medical equipment, response and resources fairly across member states. UK interestingly seemingly being treated as also being 'in the tent' rather than a Third Country.

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That will be because the deal means we still are until 31/12/20.