The 442s were sat at Ely for ages, and look at how unpopular they are with actual day to day passengers, majority of commuters despise them. They only stock I can think of that is remotely suitable for current requirements is the Mk4, but then you need to find enough suitable locos and crew to work them, and then you have the issue of commuter TOCs not liking loco hauled stock as it removes valuable seat space.
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C4 Dispatches: Investigation reveals number of 'ghost trains' lying idle in Britain
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bramling
Veteran Member
What is it with the Portsmouth line? They got 2+2 stock back which they seemingly wanted in favour of the 450s, yet now that’s apparently wrong too. It seems the problem is more that greater numbers are commuting from further out and expect a level of comfort, and this simply isn’t compatible with accommodating those from further in.
bramling
Veteran Member
Yes no doubt there’s hindsight, however does this not illustrate the lack of a strategy? The 707s will probably go elsewhere, but as far as we know there’s nothing official on the table at present.
they want 444s, because that’s what they got used to, and I don’t blame them to be fair. The 442s are having major reliability issues, the dwell times are significant, they creek, groan and moan. Ideally as many others have speculated, the excess 350s about to come in, in a 2+2 layout with plenty of tables would probably be ideal.
It is very much off topic though.
I wonder if there will be a Dispatches programme about the half million cars in the country that are currently stored on car dealers’ forecourts not being used, or the fleet of Airbuses and Boeings that will shortly be parked up at airfields all over the country.
pdeaves
Established Member
Or in people's driveways, back gardens, etc...
bramling
Veteran Member
The former aren’t regarded as being public assets subsidised by the taxpayer / fare payer. Whether that’s true in the case of much of the stored rolling stock is a matter for debate, but many will *see* it like that.
...And not to mention parts of farmyards are often full of them used as dumps.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
In fact the "overcrowding" issues, usually trotted out as the reason for needing the parked stock, is likely to be off the agenda for months, and quite possibly for longer.
The TOCs, like the airlines, will very likely be queuing up to park stock shortly.
The TOCs, like the airlines, will very likely be queuing up to park stock shortly.
CC 72100
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Absolutely, because signalling and other factors limiting linespeed would not affect journey times at all, no, definitely not.
That's a shame, it was rather good and past that rather silly bit about electric vs diesel speeds at the start took stances which I think would be the common consensus on the forum on the whole.
I've certainly seen far worse and ill informed railway related journalism!
ExRes
Established Member
I don't normally watch this sort of TV and by making an exception this evening I've remembered why, the Long Marston section was absolute and utter rubbish feeding viewers with nothing other than lies, the so called journalist should be ashamed of this garbage, unless he has a cunning plan for those stored fuel tankers to be converted to AC and used in the North of course
tbtc
Veteran Member
People will no doubt be quick to blame privatisation (even though pretty much all stock was agreed/ordered with DfT consent - or previous iterations of central Government planning/control), but this kind of thing happened under BR - trains are ordered for a thirty/forty year lifespan but generally without much of a plan for long term use (other than the likes of Crossrail, where stock is expected to stay on the line for its natural life).
Are 332s a wasted resource? Now, maybe they look like this. But the prospect of Crossrail was a pipe dream in the 1990s - there was a need for EMUs - it made sense to build new ones with high internal specification to justify the £15 fares. The fact that we've no use for them after "only" half their lives is regrettable but it made sense at the time.
Under any system, the railway is going to be full of short term decisions (e.g. the crowd pleasing order of a hundred and fifty carriages, but split between several short units with no corridor connections, fully diesel powered at a time we are meant to be reducing carbon emissions).
You don't know what future passenger numbers will be - people criticise orders that have been too small/short in hindsight but then who knows what passenger numbers will be after three months of coronavirus? Maybe it won't be long until we are complaining about a TOC that ordered trains that turned out to be too long (once a larger proportion of people get used to working from home on a regular basis).
Are 332s a wasted resource? Now, maybe they look like this. But the prospect of Crossrail was a pipe dream in the 1990s - there was a need for EMUs - it made sense to build new ones with high internal specification to justify the £15 fares. The fact that we've no use for them after "only" half their lives is regrettable but it made sense at the time.
Under any system, the railway is going to be full of short term decisions (e.g. the crowd pleasing order of a hundred and fifty carriages, but split between several short units with no corridor connections, fully diesel powered at a time we are meant to be reducing carbon emissions).
You don't know what future passenger numbers will be - people criticise orders that have been too small/short in hindsight but then who knows what passenger numbers will be after three months of coronavirus? Maybe it won't be long until we are complaining about a TOC that ordered trains that turned out to be too long (once a larger proportion of people get used to working from home on a regular basis).
D365
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It's not like the Class 332s were designed to fall apart after 20 years either, is it. (I hope)
Bertie the bus
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The whole program could have been lifted straight from a rail enthusiast forum.
10 shovel ready schemes that could improve the whole network? I doubt more than 1 or 2 are shovel ready if that.
Thousands of carriages in the middle of nowhere that could be used to reduce commuter crowding? Most of the ones shown were Mk 3s, which apart from not being PRM compliant could do absolutely nothing to solve the problem of 2 car services in Manchester.
Quadruple Castlefield and all the North's rail problems would be solved? Except for all the flat junctions in Manchester which would mean most of the problems would remain.
E16 Cyclist
Member
332’s have been flogged constantly for 23 years and are knackered, they require an extensive mechanical overhaul which would be rather expensive, plus they’re owned by Heathrow Airport who have no obligation to allow anybody else to use them if it’s not in their interest financially
squizzler
Established Member
I had to laugh at the presenter, gazing upon a rake of rusting mark 3's with the windows missing, going on like he'd come across a herd of grazing unicorns that field.
That's always been the case with Dispatches. It's like Fox News with no real attempt at balance or to even potentially start with a particular view and adapt or compromise along the way.
I get the need for click bait these days, but now you don't even need to read most articles or watch most programmes once you get beyond the headline and synopsis pushed through the media beforehand.
I guess they probably should have considered delaying the programme if it is all about running more trains precisely when trains have never been quieter (well, only until tomorrow and the day after when they'll get quieter still).
That's nothing new. The Connex 319s were like that 25 years ago. Several of the former Connex units are now running out of Euston.
jonesy3001
Established Member
No point if they are rumoured into getting more new stock and the 26 323s from WMT transferring in a couple of years.
Spartacus
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In fairness they were only built to last about 25 years anyway, I work with a guy who built them and he's aghast that they're being rebuilt to carry on in any way shape or form.
D365
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Were the Class 319s not planned to be retained under Thameslink 2000 (the original plans)? Or was there a plan to replace them completely with Networkers?
One wonders what stock will replace the ageing 345s when Crossrail eventually opens.
The_Train
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It was a poor effort really, very unbalanced but ultimately a report that typifies a lot of UK media work these days in that all they want to do is create sensationalism that will create outrage amongst 'the people'.
I'm surprised it hasn't migrated to Channel 5 where this is 99% of the programming output. As said above, it's like a newspaper that has an agenda and then goes to create a story to suit it.
I'd sooner watch a programme that started out assuming one thing and then changed my mind as I watched. But nobody cares about educational value, as outrage 'sells more papers' so to speak.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Anyone else suspect that the frequent references to "...once Coronavirus is dealt with..." were hastily spliced in in post? 
The_Train
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Anyone else suspect that the frequent references to "...once Coronavirus is dealt with..." were hastily spliced in in post?
I thought that as soon as it was mentioned in the first minute or so. I half expected to start hearing a different voice whenever the word 'coronavirus' was mentioned like when they got rid of Poochie the Dog in a Simpsons episode....- Status