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WesternLancer
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It's above! You've got to do your bit now!
Excellent drafts of 2 letters for you to finalise and send provided by some bloke (post #86)
1) cut and paste these, add your personal address details, and any reference numbers on the letters you have received
2) e-mail them to the organisations somebloke has listed ASAP
3) ALSO Print copies, and post them to those organisations too (including copies of relevant material) - go to a post office to do that and send them Royal Mail Signed for 1st Class (as explained here)
https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk/signed-for-1st-class
4) Send follow up copies to Cross Country Trains and Transport Focus again as Some bloke post in post #89
5) Also send a copy tot he court in Derby - make it clear that it relates to a case scheduled for the date and time yours is scheduled for, include any reference, ask if it can be 'brought to the attention of the appropriate person'. Again do this by post. This might not hve impact on court process, but for the cost of the postage it can't do any harm.
Start the letters / covering letters (apart from where you have been written to by a named person)
Dear Sir / Madam
Ref: [insert relevant reference Numbers / date of letters / travel details or whatever is on the stuff you have been sent by TIL]
Please find enclosed relevant material in relation tot he above that I would like you to consider.
Yours sincerely
You need to sit down now and prepare, e-mail and print some clear stuff on this now and send it to the organisations - I don't mean to be rude but posting one line messages on here, presumably tapped out on your phone is not what you now need to do. Get going with this and good luck.
Manxmaninexile
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I don't often come to this forum but can I say it would be a great pity if the OP ends up being convicted (god forbid!) or even having to pay some sort of administrative settlement when the consensus here seems to be that he (probably) had a valid ticket all along.
What a pity the OP didn't come back sooner or follow the earlier advice. what a mess...
What a pity the OP didn't come back sooner or follow the earlier advice. what a mess...
I agree with Llanigraham, the duty solicitor will only represent someone who is present and normally, only if the alleged offence might invite a custodial sentence, or if the alleged defendant has a previous record and the matter might qualify for legal aid. There are sometimes exceptions when a duty solicitor might decide to act pro-bono, but that will only happen if the OP attends Court and asks for an opportunity to speak with the Duty Solicitor as soon as possible before the case is called into the courtroom.
Y Ddraig Coch
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Is there a way of finding out court case outcomes online? I know crown courts have the details of what cases are being heard etc and court numbers in the circulars but what about outcomes? and what about Magistrates? Is there a way we could find out somewhere the outcome if the OP doesn't return? Or is it not posted anywhere?
jumble
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My only advice is to state firstly to the prosecutor before the case that you paid for your trip and had a return ticket that was valid for a month and if TIL are suggesting that you used it to travel before then you firmly state that you did no such thing and will be requesting that the magistrates ask to see some proof from TIL that you are not telling the truth
It is horribly scary being in court but I do believe the Magistrates are human and do want to see justice being done
The circumstances are not quite the same, but the context (the use of an e-ticket) and the consequences certainly are (TIL and X-Country are prominent once again), in this case from last summer.
http://www.execreview.com/2019/06/passenger-threatened-with-court-for-using-screenshot-of-e-ticket/
Passenger threatened with court for using screenshot of e-ticket
''Train companies are encouraging people to switch to e-tickets on the grounds that they are more convenient and better for the environment. But the case of a 72-year-old woman, who bought an e-ticket for her journey but was later threatened with prosecution in the magistrates court for alleged fare-dodging, may send some scurrying back to paper...''
In the article above, Anthony Smith of Transport Focus, says ''the case suggests an “astonishing contempt for fare-paying passengers”, given there was clearly no intention to defraud the railway''. While Transport Investigations Limited (who don't seem to investigate anything - they just prosecute), remain unapologetic. Cross Country ''admitted the episode had not been the firm’s finest hour''. Well another hour, another injustice, this time with knobs on.
In the OP's case, the month-long validity of the ticket is not in question. I'm wondering, also, where in statute an inadvertent activation of an e-ticket invalidates it? I do hope that the OP gets back in touch with an update. This should be another case for The Guardian and Anthony Smith.
http://www.execreview.com/2019/06/passenger-threatened-with-court-for-using-screenshot-of-e-ticket/
Passenger threatened with court for using screenshot of e-ticket
''Train companies are encouraging people to switch to e-tickets on the grounds that they are more convenient and better for the environment. But the case of a 72-year-old woman, who bought an e-ticket for her journey but was later threatened with prosecution in the magistrates court for alleged fare-dodging, may send some scurrying back to paper...''
In the article above, Anthony Smith of Transport Focus, says ''the case suggests an “astonishing contempt for fare-paying passengers”, given there was clearly no intention to defraud the railway''. While Transport Investigations Limited (who don't seem to investigate anything - they just prosecute), remain unapologetic. Cross Country ''admitted the episode had not been the firm’s finest hour''. Well another hour, another injustice, this time with knobs on.
In the OP's case, the month-long validity of the ticket is not in question. I'm wondering, also, where in statute an inadvertent activation of an e-ticket invalidates it? I do hope that the OP gets back in touch with an update. This should be another case for The Guardian and Anthony Smith.
In a nutshell, is the defence for the OP:
- I did not use the ticket previously (and is it up to TIL to prove otherwise? Is it up to TIL to prove this rather than for the OP to prove they didn't use it before? Can the OP prepare 'evidence' that they were elsewhere between activating the ticket and using it so that they could not have used the ticket before?)
- There is no written requirement to activate on the day of travel, only before travelling (and again is it up to TIL to prove otherwise?)
jumble
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IANAL
In UK law the OP is innocent until proved guilty and the magistrates ought to take their word for it in the absence of any proof otherwise
The OP might want to read MCBeth "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Haywain
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It is true that the OP is innocent until proved guilty, but the prosecution will have properly prepared evidence and relying on simply saying "I didn't do it" will not end well.
Y Ddraig Coch
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Hoping the OP gets the correct result today and then claims for time and losses worrying and preparing for this. I also hope he turns up! Would be shame if he didn't and was found guilty in his absence when he from all the evidence shown he is innocent of all charges.
Does that translate, as it comes over as doing, 'he was opinionated and vindictive and his company operates in a similar manner'?
The only way to deal with such folk is sue the AH off them. Enough MCOL claims, ideally as far away from their offices as possible to run their travel costs up some more as well as their legal costs, should destroy the company economics and put them out of business. It would be no loss.
How would anyone do that? It's someone who signed up to the forum effectively anonymously to ask for advice on this case, it's very doubtful anyone knows who they are.
Some people do come back and post the outcome, many don't. That is up to them. It's certainly not for members here to go chasing after them.
You have exactly the same options as are available to anybody else: a private message which may, depending on their settings, generate an email. Which they may, or may not, receive. And which they may, or may not read.
Y Ddraig Coch
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If it has been to court and is a matter of public record it is anyone's right to check the outcome of any case
Then i'm sure you are more than willing to assist the person above in trying to chase down an anonymous forum member.
Y Ddraig Coch
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Im quite sure I already did ,stating it is a matter of public record .... that should give them all they need to begin their search
I see what you did now. I'm just not sure it would be easy to find.
Rockhopper
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If you know which court was used its very easy to find all the details. Local news papers do this as they often print details of who's appeared that week. My local rag even puts up on their twitter feed!
Regarding post 104, I didn't know if a BM had been contacted privately early in proceedings by the OP and therefore have email contact.
There has been some excellent advice given on here by some members, of course it is entirely up to the OP to decide whether to come back and post findings of the case.
However, not just in this case but many others on Rail Forums, a new person joins with a problem and seeks advice, when admirable advice is given the OP seems to disappear and never be heard of again.
With similar sorts of posts regarding parking penalty queries on Money Saving Expert, the OP posts results of the outcome, good or bad. We can all learn something new every day.
There has been some excellent advice given on here by some members, of course it is entirely up to the OP to decide whether to come back and post findings of the case.
However, not just in this case but many others on Rail Forums, a new person joins with a problem and seeks advice, when admirable advice is given the OP seems to disappear and never be heard of again.
With similar sorts of posts regarding parking penalty queries on Money Saving Expert, the OP posts results of the outcome, good or bad. We can all learn something new every day.
Western Sunset
Established Member
As the OP was on a train between Derby and Bristol, would it be Derby Magistrates?
Yeah, that was confirmed earlier in the thread. I was working on the assumption that several railway related cases would be done on the day so it may be difficult to distinguish which one it was given the fairly limited information available. Happy to be told otherwise.
Rockhopper
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If it was settled out of court then nothing would be published.
WesternLancer
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I tried to search for derby magistrates court cases on line but could not find it - I was not really sure what to look for in detail I think.
Rockhopper
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Y Ddraig Coch
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It was the magistrates court, not crown.
Rockhopper
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Southern Derbyshire Magistrates Court is the one you want. No other magistrates court in Derby.
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