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Major upgrade planned for Lewisham station
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Aictos
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What's wrong with the current station? Just seems that stations that can suffice with their current layouts are being priorised over stations that need upgrading urgently!
What isn't?
Lewisham is in the very urgent category as it can't cope with the passenger loadings - a combination of entry/exit and NR interchange with complex passenger flows, then add the flows to/from the DLR station, no space for more gates and some stepping distance issues to be addressed. Probably a minimum of £70m.
It is a performance blackhole for the SE metro network.
For NR traffic alone is busier than Bristol TM, York Cambridge or Sheffield.
When DLR is thrown in it is also busier than Gatwick, Cardiff, Brighton or Reading
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Chris M
Member
Indeed, and as the quoted article notes the Bakerloo line will almost certainly be adding even more passengers. That's a few years away, but with the speed these projects take nowadays you'd need to start the planning now even if the station could cope with its existing passenger numbers (which it can't).
Especially with LB Lewisham's propensity to do the worst possible for public transport.
swt_passenger
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Isn’t it also TfL’s proposal to reduce the number of route choices to the various SE termini? So you might find all your local station’s trains going to only one of Charing Cross, Cannon St or Victoria. Hence leading to far more interchange at Lewisham.
Chris M
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I thought that was the DfT's proposal, but yes that will also increase the need for an upgrade a Lewisham
swt_passenger
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Perhaps, I was going from memory. Might have been one of those joint proposals to do with “Overgrounding” that appeared every few years...
It was proposed but faced serious opposition from local residents in Bexley and Bromley.
It was in TfL's 2019 Devolution bid.
Of course, the single termini approach was first mentioned in Network Rail's Kent Route Study and in pre-consultation for South East Franchise consultation.
It’s terrible, at all times of day. It’s close to being closed at peak times due to being unsafe due to crowding.
Yes, and they have to implement a one-way system in the station.
It is a hellmouth. And the Bakerloo would be
The nature of the platforms directs all passengers to a tiny 'apex' - and the DLR was built for a fraction of the usage of today.
They should revisit the single terminus idea, but only with commensurate frequency increases. Plus the Bakerloo covers Waterloo, Embankment/Charing Cross and the rest of the West End. So many would jump on an empty train at Lewisham. Journey times comparable. London Bridge users might be inconvenienced.
I recall 4tph were planned for Victoria via Denmark Hill (with the Brockley project doing) - but to be sent via Sidcup.
If Overground was added to the mix (frankly, the New Cross stub is little use, but a good inner turnback) - I'm not sure where it could go. Perhaps to Blackheath and that old bay platform - the crossing move wouldn't be too horrible. But it would add even more pressure to Lewisham.
The nature of the platforms directs all passengers to a tiny 'apex' - and the DLR was built for a fraction of the usage of today.
They should revisit the single terminus idea, but only with commensurate frequency increases. Plus the Bakerloo covers Waterloo, Embankment/Charing Cross and the rest of the West End. So many would jump on an empty train at Lewisham. Journey times comparable. London Bridge users might be inconvenienced.
I recall 4tph were planned for Victoria via Denmark Hill (with the Brockley project doing) - but to be sent via Sidcup.
If Overground was added to the mix (frankly, the New Cross stub is little use, but a good inner turnback) - I'm not sure where it could go. Perhaps to Blackheath and that old bay platform - the crossing move wouldn't be too horrible. But it would add even more pressure to Lewisham.
One concern is, the interchange between Bakerloo Line and NR station could be a low cost one, using just a tunnel to connect between them.
Of course, in the best-case scenario, a whole rebuilding of Lewisham Station and Lewisham Junction is the one, to minimise crossover conflict of trains once and for all...
Of course, in the best-case scenario, a whole rebuilding of Lewisham Station and Lewisham Junction is the one, to minimise crossover conflict of trains once and for all...
telstarbox
Established Member
I've thought that a short term fix would be to add stairs from the street at the south end of Platforms 1 and 2 (by the leisure centre), and the east end of Platforms 3 and 4 (by Premier Inn). However these would need additional barriers and staff which all cost more money, and it wouldn't solve the platform curvature which is horrendous on Platform 2.
The one-way system has helped matters but it does mean that if you're boarding at Lewisham in the morning, you have to start at the London end of the platforms and then work your way back down to the quieter middle / country end while people are coming off the trains to the DLR.
The one-way system has helped matters but it does mean that if you're boarding at Lewisham in the morning, you have to start at the London end of the platforms and then work your way back down to the quieter middle / country end while people are coming off the trains to the DLR.
That's part of the reason why passenger travelling to Lewisham are mostly concentrated at the London-end of the carriage.
Country exits for the Town Centre might provide some relief and spread folks a little more. More on the Hither Green platforms.
But the problem is that the front is also the exit at Cannon St and Charing Cross, not to mention DLR/bus station/future Bakerloo, and all of the newer developments too.
So I can’t think it would make too big a dent.
But the problem is that the front is also the exit at Cannon St and Charing Cross, not to mention DLR/bus station/future Bakerloo, and all of the newer developments too.
So I can’t think it would make too big a dent.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
There's a few residential tower blocks gone up recently which will put pressures on an already cramped station even further
telstarbox
Established Member
The back is ok for Waterloo East (Jubilee line) and London Bridge though - regular commuters will use the back rather than not getting on at all.
The short answer is NO, because the layout is so tight, and P2 is particularly awkward being on the outside of a curve.
If you ran the Bakerloo through to Hayes, and persuaded all Hither Green etc to Lewisham travellers to circulate via St Johns, you could get away with closing 1 and 2 to passengers and get rid of half the double scissors crossing..
Or perhaps Bakerloo to Hayes plus DLR to Hither Green (new build - it could then go on to Bromley North which gets proposed occasionally) would relieve the pressure? But how long would that take?
I can't really see what the DLR would do. I used to think it might nestle in between the two Catford stations nicely, and link them up into one station, but then some apartments were built.
Hayes is ear-marked for the Bakerloo, which will make sense in time and folks will come round to it. Bromley North might be the only DLR option, as it's not removing a direct London service for anyone (on the other hand, no new paths freed unlike those lovely 4tph for Hayes) - but would still have good demand in both directions. Overground would be even better though.
Hayes is ear-marked for the Bakerloo, which will make sense in time and folks will come round to it. Bromley North might be the only DLR option, as it's not removing a direct London service for anyone (on the other hand, no new paths freed unlike those lovely 4tph for Hayes) - but would still have good demand in both directions. Overground would be even better though.
SlimJim1694
Member
On the trains to/from Orpington there are a disproportionate amount of platforms with entrances at the London end...
Charing Cross
Waterloo East
Cannon Street
Lewisham
Hither Green
Grove Park
Petts Wood
It was worse when London Bridge did too but I can't help thinking it would be a very quick fix and speed up boarding times if more country end or middle platform exits could be built. The back two coaches of down trains on this route are always completely rammed.
Hither Green used to have a footbridge at the country end but that is a long time gone now.
With regards to Lewisham I've always thought a flyover from Lewisham Vale junction to platforms 3&4 would be the best option. It would have to go over the bit where the Electrical Control Room is but I think the housing is too close to make this feasible.
I think the only realistic way to solve Lewisham is to bite the bullet and keep the north Kent side as Cannon street only and the Mid Kent side as Charing Cross and Victoria only, with additional interchange facilities and platform widening work being done.
Charing Cross
Waterloo East
Cannon Street
Lewisham
Hither Green
Grove Park
Petts Wood
It was worse when London Bridge did too but I can't help thinking it would be a very quick fix and speed up boarding times if more country end or middle platform exits could be built. The back two coaches of down trains on this route are always completely rammed.
Hither Green used to have a footbridge at the country end but that is a long time gone now.
With regards to Lewisham I've always thought a flyover from Lewisham Vale junction to platforms 3&4 would be the best option. It would have to go over the bit where the Electrical Control Room is but I think the housing is too close to make this feasible.
I think the only realistic way to solve Lewisham is to bite the bullet and keep the north Kent side as Cannon street only and the Mid Kent side as Charing Cross and Victoria only, with additional interchange facilities and platform widening work being done.
My suggestion was to extend to Hither Green so you didn't need Loop line services to run via Lewisham. Perhaps the route would be via Ladywell - Lewisham Hospital - Hither Green, covering both routes. It wouldn't be cheap!
It means the digging up of whole Lewisham which I am afraid it won't be cost beneficial
Agree on the splits in principle, but we do have a doubled (and under-utilised) Tanners Hill to help re Charing Cross.
The issue is keeping Cannon St services away from the southerly lines. I could Cannon St only serving routes via Greenwich and Blackheath in future. Including all North Kent. Everything at a higher frequency.
Optimal, but would be controversial I’m sure.
The issue is keeping Cannon St services away from the southerly lines. I could Cannon St only serving routes via Greenwich and Blackheath in future. Including all North Kent. Everything at a higher frequency.
Optimal, but would be controversial I’m sure.
carriageline
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I would be seriously against using tanners hill more. Watch the chaos that Junction causes when trains are late. When you have to hold a down train there for a few minutes in the peaks, very quickly a queue builds behind it. Before you know it, it’s back to blue anchor.
I don't think the suggèstion is to use it more (the main line doesn't have the capacity anyway) - just to switch routing.
SlimJim1694
Member
There are issues around Lewisham, Lewisham Vale and Tanners Hill junctions regarding 12 car trains too. Stop a 12 car at certain signals and you will lock up the lot.
Exactly. focus Blackheath on CST and Sidcup /Grove Park via CHX if going though Lewisham
(Hayes - CHX shouldn't go though Lewisham of course)
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