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Drop in passenger numbers sees train services cut
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This thread is specifically to discuss the drop in passenger services.
Also if anyone sees an inappropriate comment, it is vital that this is reported using the report button and not replied to. Thanks
Edit: I have now removed the offending content and the posts that referred to it, but please can everyone report any offensive content ASAP and not reply to it, as this makes our (voluntary) job much easier, thanks!!
Also if anyone sees an inappropriate comment, it is vital that this is reported using the report button and not replied to. Thanks
Edit: I have now removed the offending content and the posts that referred to it, but please can everyone report any offensive content ASAP and not reply to it, as this makes our (voluntary) job much easier, thanks!!
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I'd argue that if more people work from home then we'll need rail projects even more than we do now.
Why you may ask? Well if you are going into work each day then the high upfront cost of car ownership makes sense as you can spread it over the ~225 days a year that you work.
However if you drop to 4 days in the office you increase the per day cost of your car (for work purposes) increases by 25%, whilst 3 days in the office increases the costs by 66%.
That's going to make a big difference in the equation as to whether you own a car or not, of there's two of you in a house and you're both working 2 days from the office then those people would likely share a car.
However, there will still be trips which will require those two people traveling to different locations and so they will likely opt for rail for one of those trips.
You also have to bear in mind that air travel is likely to be in dire straits and might not be an option for some time. As such there's likely to a shift from air to rail as well.
As such it may not be as clear cut, as it's unlikely that the dramatic fall in passenger numbers will be sustained. (As I doubt that anyone would be suggesting that we don't invest in motorways as they are a lot quieter than normal as well).
@The Ham I completely agree with you (on a personal note) but (from a moderator point of view) I suggest further discussion of homeworking takes place in the https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/coronavirus-and-working-from-home.202305/ thread
If we can keep this thread to just discussing the actual services that would be useful; if it becomes a duplicate of the other thread we can simply merge them (or close one of them), but I'd rather avoid that if possible, and keep them separate, please
If we can keep this thread to just discussing the actual services that would be useful; if it becomes a duplicate of the other thread we can simply merge them (or close one of them), but I'd rather avoid that if possible, and keep them separate, please
@The Ham I completely agree with you (on a personal note) but (from a moderator point of view) I suggest further discussion of homeworking takes place in the https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/coronavirus-and-working-from-home.202305/ thread
If we can keep this thread to just discussing the actual services that would be useful; if it becomes a duplicate of the other thread we can simply merge them (or close one of them), but I'd rather avoid that if possible, and keep them separate, please
OK, sorry it took me some time to reply so didn't see your post until I'd posted my comment.
Killingworth
Established Member
We are witnessing a rationalisation of the railway that will lead to permanent changes, many of which have been talked about on the threads in this forum,
Necessity is bringing it about. I look back over the last 12 months on the Hope Valley route between Sheffield and Manchester. A year ago we had an hourly 4 car 158 from EM, an hourly 3 car 185 from TPE and an hourly 142 Pacer from Northern. 9 cars in total and a challenging mix.
Fairly good in theory but there have been many cancellations and late trains have been normal. Each has delayed the others. Demand has been restrained by the unpredictable performance.
There's clearly been coordination to introduce a 2 hourly fast and an hourly stopper from Monday. That is using current timings. However a rejigged hourly from both, 6 car 185 from TPE and 4 car 15x or 195 from Northern, would give 10 cars per hour over the route, greater capacity and should improve reliability.
I'll now dive for cover. That would not be happily accepted by many, although if timings were guaranteed more than some might concede. Users were hoping for 4 fast services an hour then reduced to 3, and were 2 until yesterday.
There will be a lot of serious thinking as this crisis pans out. Some of the emergency experiences will lead to permanent changes that have been long overdue. Longer and less frequent trains seem very likely.
A more rational national railway may be a result. Directed by the government. Ah, isn't that a bit like what happened in 1939, that lead to....
Necessity is bringing it about. I look back over the last 12 months on the Hope Valley route between Sheffield and Manchester. A year ago we had an hourly 4 car 158 from EM, an hourly 3 car 185 from TPE and an hourly 142 Pacer from Northern. 9 cars in total and a challenging mix.
Fairly good in theory but there have been many cancellations and late trains have been normal. Each has delayed the others. Demand has been restrained by the unpredictable performance.
There's clearly been coordination to introduce a 2 hourly fast and an hourly stopper from Monday. That is using current timings. However a rejigged hourly from both, 6 car 185 from TPE and 4 car 15x or 195 from Northern, would give 10 cars per hour over the route, greater capacity and should improve reliability.
I'll now dive for cover. That would not be happily accepted by many, although if timings were guaranteed more than some might concede. Users were hoping for 4 fast services an hour then reduced to 3, and were 2 until yesterday.
There will be a lot of serious thinking as this crisis pans out. Some of the emergency experiences will lead to permanent changes that have been long overdue. Longer and less frequent trains seem very likely.
A more rational national railway may be a result. Directed by the government. Ah, isn't that a bit like what happened in 1939, that lead to....
Baxenden Bank
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There's also the 1923 example of how to re-organise things after a crisis.
GA have added an hourly North to Town shuttle at Colchester:
0608 Ex Colchester to the Town
0619 Town to Colchester
The xx46 ex Colchester and xx04 ex Colchester Town
So given different companies are responding in different ways and in a very short space of time, how does Network Rail coordinate all the timetables so that trains of different companies don't clash at stations.
I mean a Southern brand Sunday timetable is very different to a Saturday one and if South Western Railway are operating a Monday to Saturday strike timetable, how does this interact correctly with a Southern Sunday one? I say this because during the SWR strikes, they had a different timetable on Sundays, which obviously worked ok along with a Southern brand one.
I mean a Southern brand Sunday timetable is very different to a Saturday one and if South Western Railway are operating a Monday to Saturday strike timetable, how does this interact correctly with a Southern Sunday one? I say this because during the SWR strikes, they had a different timetable on Sundays, which obviously worked ok along with a Southern brand one.
Which train companies are not introducing a reduced timetable?
The notice on National Rail Enquiries only says the majority are.
The notice on National Rail Enquiries only says the majority are.
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/245388.aspx
WatcherZero
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Is anyone getting much sense out of the NRE or Northern journey planners?
On both sites im seeing the services that were cancelled on Friday as cancelled but rather than the services on Monday that are cancelled being shown as such im instead seeing duplicate additional services added (e.g. from Wigan two departures at 7:56, 8:01 cancelled, two departures at 8:08).
On both sites im seeing the services that were cancelled on Friday as cancelled but rather than the services on Monday that are cancelled being shown as such im instead seeing duplicate additional services added (e.g. from Wigan two departures at 7:56, 8:01 cancelled, two departures at 8:08).
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Jamesrob637
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Island Line?
ValentaFan1974
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I was amazed today seeing IET’s and Voyagers etc, running as double sets, when the entire train length probably had 20-30 people in them. Bizarre....
Killingworth
Established Member
Keep Your Distance!
I've seen several reports of packed commuter trains this morning, including C2C.
Services need to be sufficient so that those who have to travel for work can keep a reasonable distance apart.
Frequency and / or length of trains should be reviewed immediately.
Services need to be sufficient so that those who have to travel for work can keep a reasonable distance apart.
Frequency and / or length of trains should be reviewed immediately.
Pete_uk
Established Member
Some GWR Cheltenham Paddington services seem to be going from Cheltenham to Swindon. Some are still 9 carriages apparently?
London Trains
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There is little interaction anyway, given:
- SWR only run to Epsom, not to Dorking or Guildford during their strike timetable, so have little interaction with Southern services to Dorking.
- Southern don't run to Guildford at weekends so have no interaction with Guildford via Cobham services.
- Southern don't run from London to Southampton on sundays.
- On the Southern website it states passengers should change at Havant if travelling Brighton to Southampton which gives me the assumption these trains are not running.
reddragon
Established Member
GWR are running their normal timetable . . . .
. . . . just with many cancellations!
My local station dropped from 6 to 1 train an hour this morning peak!! Still, ticket office was closed and 1 car in the car park and only 4 passengers
. . . . just with many cancellations!
My local station dropped from 6 to 1 train an hour this morning peak!! Still, ticket office was closed and 1 car in the car park and only 4 passengers
Alanko
Member
From the end of last week I've noticed that most of the Scotrail 385s passing the house are virtually empty. Over the weekend I counted a few entirely empty trains, whilst on Friday I saw three people on an eight-car Edinburgh to Glasgow service.
Greybeard33
Established Member
From looking at RTT, what appears to have happened is that Northern uploaded replacement Short Term Plan (STP) schedules for the 0756 Wallgate to Leeds and the 0730 Southport to Stalybridge (Wallgate d 0808), but failed to cancel the normal Long Term Plan schedules for those same services. That causes the same physical train to be duplicated in journey planners.
This same issue affects many other services across the Northern network today. I suspect the Northern train planning team has been overwhelmed by the sheer number of last minute timetable changes, due to lack of advance notice of traincrew availability.
I read that will have an hourly service. Unless I'm confusing that with the train maintenance issue that has reduced the rolling stock.
How are the timetable departments of the TOCs coping with levels of staff vers the virus? Are some struggling with people self isolating? Can staff work from home on such matters as timetable changes?
South Western Railway state on their Web Site:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/coronvirus-temporary-timetable
So imagine my surprise when today I see a 2 hourly service between Farnham and Guildford is running. Thus Wanborough will be served.
I'll let them know via Twitter but I'm not expecting them to update the Web Site information, even after being informed, as they haven't always done so in the past.
If they did, it would be the first mention of Guildford to Farnham ever during these kind of large scale amended timetables, despite them running over 300 services a week between them under normal circumstances!
I see there was a 4:31 Reading to Gatwick Airport. I didn't think any trains were going to Gatwick Airport. After that the next train isn't until 5:56 and it terminates at Redhill. Then you get another gap until 7:27 and then a 7:56.
I guess either stock movement or when passengers are most likely to want to travel may have dictated those times.
I also see there are 20:27, 21:20, 22:29 and 23:34 services from Reading to Gatwick Airport. I am assuming as they usually run to Gatwick Airport, they will.
Tomorrow's timetable for Great Western Railway isn't up yet. I assume in time they will get to a point whereby the timetables for the week can be uploaded in advance, given this is in force for some unknown length of time.
I had wanted to look up how to get from Guildford to Brighton, without doing each stage manually but I'm too late today for the time I wish to travel and tomorrow's timetable is currently wrong. On top of that until this morning, I would have expected no trains between Guildford and Gatwick Airport, as there Web Site doesn't mention it.
Now the timetable is hopefully fixed, hopefully they can upload tomorrow's timetable sooner.
Envoy
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If they cut back too much, then we are likely to see passengers sitting (or even standing) close together - thus likely to spread the Coronavirus.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That has apparently happened on LNR this morning, who very, very stupidly sent a 4-car out.
chris11256
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This happened on c2c this morning. Pictures on social media of extremely crowded 8 carriage trains, as they're now only operating a half hourly sercvice.
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