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Coronavirus.

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Xenophon PCDGS

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Looking at the number of threads now running on this new sub-forum and since this particular one with a single-word generalised thread title seems the one to ask a question. The majority of countries affected by the virus that have featured in the television media are all what could be described as non-Muslim countries and wonder why any of the Sunni Muslim middle-East states (Iran being a Shia Muslim state) and other Sunni Muslim places such as Pakistan and Afghanistan are noticeable by the lack of any television reporting on them, whereas India has certainly been mentioned.
 
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Domh245

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Looking at the number of threads now running on this new sub-forum and since this particular one with a single-word generalised thread title seems the one to ask a question. The majority of countries affected by the virus that have featured in the media are all what could be described as non-Muslim countries and wonder why any of the Sunni Muslim middle-East states (Iran being a Shia Muslim state) and other Sunni Muslim places such as Pakistan and Afghanistan are noticeable by the lack of any reporting on them, whereas India has certainly been mentioned.

Iran was an early outbreak for whatever reason so received a lot of attention at the time and remains one of the larger outbreaks. Other countries are beginning to pick up now (latest WHO report shows Pakistan had 289 new cases yesterday) but the news cycle is rather obviously more focused on the domestic response rather than the beginning of the outbreak in a country which is pretty irrelevant to most of us. The question then becomes why countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are lagging behind which is probably because a relative lack of imported cases, whilst in countries where there is a high likelihood of imported cases (eg Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc) - they've been very proactively testing AIUI
 

Bletchleyite

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Iran was an early outbreak for whatever reason so received a lot of attention at the time and remains one of the larger outbreaks. Other countries are beginning to pick up now (latest WHO report shows Pakistan had 289 new cases yesterday) but the news cycle is rather obviously more focused on the domestic response rather than the beginning of the outbreak in a country which is pretty irrelevant to most of us. The question then becomes why countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are lagging behind which is probably because a relative lack of imported cases, whilst in countries where there is a high likelihood of imported cases (eg Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc) - they've been very proactively testing AIUI

It's also possible that heat does in fact have an impact on it?
 

Cowley

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Anyone stay awake half the night listening to the phone-in on the combined Radio 5Live and local stations? Some bloke on there rang in to complain that the PM was "telling people what to do". He ranted on about this at some length. Really I do despair sometimes.
I think they let people like that on just to get you shouting at the radio sometimes.
I imagine much of the rest of the show was full of people texting in to say how selfish he was.
In the words of Mrs Merton “Let’s have a heated debate!”
 

trainophile

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On a happier note (hope this is the right thread, I'm getting a bit confused) - the Premier Inn non-refundable bookings that I claimed for on Saturday have now been credited in full on my bank account. Well done Premier Inn, will be happy to use you in future in preference to some other places that are sticking to the rules.
 
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Esker-pades

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Fair enough. Thank you for your honest opinion :)

All the best to you in these uncertain times.
Shows how much 12 hours does:
Some of my friends who are only in the UK for studying are currently scramming. One person I've been in contact with has flights for the end of this week to get home. I can keep you updated about how that turns out. As far as I know, UK students haven't tried to leave for home.

Personally, I would still not move. I don't see how any of it is compatible with government advice.


Personally I'd prefer to be in my own space for something like this and am very glad I live on my own - if anyone else was here I would be tripping over them. Obviously whether that applies to you or not is up to you.
I don't understand how this follows from my comments.
 

Domh245

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I'm staying put at my term-time address for now, seeing as going back to London when that's the epicentre of the pandemic would be a bit of a daft move, although many students have gone back home, including my two housemates. Last week I was almost ran over on campus by a car that was obviously taking somebody out of halls back home (fully loaded with bike on the back!)

Hopefully restrictions will have been lifted by the time my tenancy agreement runs out (31st July!) and I'll be able to move back home (or wherever else) without worrying about breaking curfews, etc
 

trainophile

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Presumably those contemplating going home from Uni are those who normally reside with their parents, in which case it makes sense to go back as you can all help eachother out, and parents will probably be able to feed you properly!
 

cactustwirly

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I'm staying put at my term-time address for now, seeing as going back to London when that's the epicentre of the pandemic would be a bit of a daft move, although many students have gone back home, including my two housemates. Last week I was almost ran over on campus by a car that was obviously taking somebody out of halls back home (fully loaded with bike on the back!)

Hopefully restrictions will have been lifted by the time my tenancy agreement runs out (31st July!) and I'll be able to move back home (or wherever else) without worrying about breaking curfews, etc

I did the opposite really, I was already struggling to get food, and I would have been stuck in my own.
 

Mathew S

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Ok. When is it time to challenge, point out obvious bluster, lies and bull and hold these people to account? When is your profession going to start doing that? From my point of view they haven't done that at all. If it is happening where is it happening and who is doing it?

No one is doing it apart from that odious twonk Peirs Morgan who went through the health secretary the other day. That was all about his ego but needs doing more often by more sensible people. We dont have access to these politicians. You do. You have to ask for us.

Also Johnson is not communicating well being jocular and sending out mixed messages ( mothers day for example) and your profession should be making him clarify his wibble there and then. Instead they lap it up and dont challenge and then report what some press aide said as "clarification"
Were Boris to appear on the Today programme, for example, that would be a place where more push and challenge is acceptable. However, right now, the kind of challenge you're advocating isn't really appropriate simply because the government - like it or not - are doing what the experts are telling them. We're not in a position to argue with experts (especially when the experts we have access to - some of whom literally wrote the textbook on this stuff - are telling us that the SAGE advice is absolutely spot on).

I'm not going to pretend that I've listened to every single word of every single statement over the last few weeks, but for the record I haven't heard Boris - or any other minister - say anything that would count as a lie. Given the rapid evolution of the science, it's understandable that policy will change based on that science. However, that's not lying. In fact, it's doing exactly what a senior minister is supposed to do.

Where I do, to an extent, agree is on the clarity of communication. I know that colleagues at Sky, and especially at the BBC, are doing their utmost to get clear answers to the difficult questions that, understandably, people want answers to. A lot of the time, the officials they're asking don't know the answers themselves and have to go away, work it out, and come back with an answer later that day/week. The caveat is that the civil servants and others who are working their backsides off to put together more policy/legislation/guidance in the past few weeks than would normally happen in several years are doing their best - and we have to treat them fairly. Mistakes are going to happen, and "calling people out", to use that hateful phrase, simply is not helpful.

I can't speak for others, but working in local radio right now, my priority isn't the politicians, or the news, or whether Boris is using the right language: it's our community, our listeners. I've had people on the phone to me in tears not knowing how they're going to feed their kids, I've had small business owners who don't know how to go on, teenagers worried about getting into university, intensive care staff who are genuinely fearful for their own safety and that of their patients and, of course families who's loved ones have died, or are dying. My job, our job, is to be there for them. To try to help them find answers, and to offer a bit of humanity. That means talking to government departments, councils, the NHS, and others, and working with them - not in opposition to them - to get the answers listeners need. That's what good journalism looks like, at times like this, not arguing with a minister on the TV because it'll get good ratings and maybe make a few people feel better.
 

Mathew S

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Because this is such an alien situation for many, and dealing with serious infectious disease is (thankfully) something that most people never have to face, the London School of Hygeine and Tropical Medicine have created a free online course which covers the natural history and identification of the virus, how it spreads, public health measures to tackle it, and what might be needed looking to the future.
For anyone who might find it useful, the link is https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/covid19-novel-coronavirus.
 

Goldfish62

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Because this is such an alien situation for many, and dealing with serious infectious disease is (thankfully) something that most people never have to face, the London School of Hygeine and Tropical Medicine have created a free online course which covers the natural history and identification of the virus, how it spreads, public health measures to tackle it, and what might be needed looking to the future.
For anyone who might find it useful, the link is https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/covid19-novel-coronavirus.
Thanks! Something to learn over the next three weeks!
 

DarloRich

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Were Boris to appear on the Today programme, for example, that would be a place where more push and challenge is acceptable. However, right now, the kind of challenge you're advocating isn't really appropriate simply because the government - like it or not - are doing what the experts are telling them. We're not in a position to argue with experts (especially when the experts we have access to - some of whom literally wrote the textbook on this stuff - are telling us that the SAGE advice is absolutely spot on).

I'm not going to pretend that I've listened to every single word of every single statement over the last few weeks, but for the record I haven't heard Boris - or any other minister - say anything that would count as a lie. Given the rapid evolution of the science, it's understandable that policy will change based on that science. However, that's not lying. In fact, it's doing exactly what a senior minister is supposed to do.

Where I do, to an extent, agree is on the clarity of communication. I know that colleagues at Sky, and especially at the BBC, are doing their utmost to get clear answers to the difficult questions that, understandably, people want answers to. A lot of the time, the officials they're asking don't know the answers themselves and have to go away, work it out, and come back with an answer later that day/week. The caveat is that the civil servants and others who are working their backsides off to put together more policy/legislation/guidance in the past few weeks than would normally happen in several years are doing their best - and we have to treat them fairly. Mistakes are going to happen, and "calling people out", to use that hateful phrase, simply is not helpful.

We shall have to disagree. I feel the Westminster media are being too soft and need to attack more and I think that is because they are worried about losing their precious access to important people. I know you wont agree.

BTW I don't want civil servants attacked. They are not responsible. I want the organ grinder challenged and held to account and his bull and wibble challenged in the hope we reach a clear, unambiguous statement

They cant even get the comms from last night right. The message has changed on key workers and going to work!

PS Hancock was caught not quite telling the truth, if not quite a lie. I wonder why it was the moron Morgan who attacked him.

I can't speak for others, but working in local radio right now, my priority isn't the politicians, or the news, or whether Boris is using the right language: it's our community, our listeners. I've had people on the phone to me in tears not knowing how they're going to feed their kids, I've had small business owners who don't know how to go on, teenagers worried about getting into university, intensive care staff who are genuinely fearful for their own safety and that of their patients and, of course families who's loved ones have died, or are dying. My job, our job, is to be there for them. To try to help them find answers, and to offer a bit of humanity. That means talking to government departments, councils, the NHS, and others, and working with them - not in opposition to them - to get the answers listeners need. That's what good journalism looks like, at times like this, not arguing with a minister on the TV because it'll get good ratings and maybe make a few people feel better.

I do agree with you about this. Local media, like the BBC radio, will be vital in the coming weeks.
 

Mathew S

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We shall have to disagree. I feel the Westminster media are being too soft and need to attack more and I think that is because they are worried about losing their precious access to important people. I know you wont agree.

BTW I don't want civil servants attacked. They are not responsible. I want the organ grinder challenged and held to account and his bull and wibble challenged in the hope we reach a clear, unambiguous statement

They cant even get the comms from last night right. The message has changed on key workers and going to work!

PS Hancock was caught not quite telling the truth, if not quite a lie. I wonder why it was the moron Morgan who attacked him.



I do agree with you about this. Local media, like the BBC radio, will be vital in the coming weeks.
That's fair, more than happy to agree to disagree.

Just to touch on the 'organ-grinder' thing, one of the really odd things about this situation is that it is, by and large, the civil servants and other experts who are calling the shots. Yes, the politicians have to scrutinise, sign off, and approve, but it's the officials behind the scenes who are driving this reponse. I guess what I'm saying is that, right now, the organ grinder probably isn't who most people think.
 

DarloRich

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That's fair, more than happy to agree to disagree.

Just to touch on the 'organ-grinder' thing, one of the really odd things about this situation is that it is, by and large, the civil servants and other experts who are calling the shots. Yes, the politicians have to scrutinise, sign off, and approve, but it's the officials behind the scenes who are driving this reponse. I guess what I'm saying is that, right now, the organ grinder probably isn't who most people think.

Johnson remains accountable for everything done or not done. He is still the organ grinder but he might have let the monkeys touch the handle ;)
 

greyman42

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Iran was an early outbreak for whatever reason so received a lot of attention at the time and remains one of the larger outbreaks. Other countries are beginning to pick up now (latest WHO report shows Pakistan had 289 new cases yesterday) but the news cycle is rather obviously more focused on the domestic response rather than the beginning of the outbreak in a country which is pretty irrelevant to most of us. The question then becomes why countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are lagging behind which is probably because a relative lack of imported cases, whilst in countries where there is a high likelihood of imported cases (eg Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc) - they've been very proactively testing AIUI
There seems to be very little news coming out of Russia regarding the virus.
 

Mogster

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Unlikely, as there still a sigificant amount of cases in Singapore and South Korea, which have a hot and humid climate.

South Korea is neither hot or humid in late winter. It’s cold and dry with very similar to conditions to Wuhan and the other initial areas of local spread Iran and Northern Italy.

99% of locally acquired cases are above the Tropic of Cancer.
 

nlogax

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Anyone stay awake half the night listening to the phone-in on the combined Radio 5Live and local stations? Some bloke on there rang in to complain that the PM was "telling people what to do". He ranted on about this at some length. Really I do despair sometimes.

Even during the best of times brain-popping madness is guaranteed by listening to those phone-ins. Avoid avoid avoid.
 

Darandio

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Must admit I was underwhelmed by the intellect displayed by the majority of callers, although I put some of this down the the ungodly hour!

It's not just the ungodly hour, a 75 year old called Chris has become quite famous today after ringing BBC Radio Solent. The presenter put the phone down in the end.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/coronavirus-radio-caller-sparks-outrage-21744878

A radio caller has sparked outrage after insisting there was nothing wrong with her visiting her elderly friends and going shopping for non-essentials in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic.

The woman, who went by the name Chris on Monday's BBC Radio Solent mid-morning show, vowed to continue about her everyday life - despite her husband having a recent health scare and herself being in the most at-risk category due to her age.

In the clip, which has gone viral on Twitter, caller Chris branded radio presenter Pat Sissons "silly" and accused him of "causing panic" for following the government's advice to stay inside and slow the spread of infection.

"You're a strapping great young man, why are you so worried about this virus? I can't believe it," she told him dismissively.

"Because if I get it, I'll pass it on to other people," he explained.

"Well, that's too bad isn't it."

"What do you mean, it's too bad?!" exclaimed the presenter.

"I don't care whether we have a lockdown or not, I hope we don't, because regardless of that, if you're going to get it, you'll get it anyway."

"That's absolute nonsense, Chris," pointed out Pat.

"No it isn't, no it isn't. And people have been cooped up indoors all winter, and we've had the most glorious weekend weather for ages. And you want to stop people getting out?" asked the caller.

"Where were you at the weekend?" Pat wanted to know.

The caller then listed all the places she went - including the shops and to see her elderly friend.

"Well I went shopping on Saturday to Asda, then I went to [the] bay and had a walk along the front and sat on the beach a while because it was so beautiful. Unfortunately my husband couldn't come with me because he's recovering from a stroke. Yesterday we went to the cemeteries to put flowers on our mothers' graves. Then we called in to see a friend," she recalled.

"You called in to see a friend? How old is your friend?" Pat asked incredulously.

"Yes, and she didn't mind at all. She's 78," came Chris' unbelievable response.

"78! You are irresponsible," shouted the radio host.

"No I'm not. You are causing panic," the caller shot back indignantly.

"I'm not causing panic, this is the government advice that you are flouting."

Chris continued: "No. The government are stupid. I mean Boris Johnson is an idiot, so I'm not even going to go down there."

"Chris, I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but if you went around all those places - the shops, where we know people are not staying apart - and then you went to see your 78-year-old friend, you are irresponsible," said Pat firmly.

"No, you are a frightened man and I can't understand why," Chris argued back.

"Because I don't want to pass this on, I don't want to get it and I don't want to pass it on."

"Don't be silly, you'd survive it, what are you worried about?" came the caller's response.

"But the person I pass it to might not. Your 78-year-old friend might not," said Pat.

"I'm 75!" Chris explained.

Then you might not," Pat pointed out bleakly.

But the caller was still unrepentant, continuing: "If we get it, we don't actually care. We've had our lives so stuff it, you know?"

"So you're happy to die for a day at the beach?"

"Yeah," she said defiantly.

At that point, the DJ had enough and hung up on her in disgust.

"Well. Bye Chris. Sorry but I can't deal with any more of that," he told his listeners in disgust.
 

nlogax

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It's not just the ungodly hour, a 75 year old called Chris has become quite famous today after ringing BBC Radio Solent. The presenter put the phone down in the end.

Just listened to it and..I'm actually speechless. No doubt one of the most selfish and ignorant callers I've heard on a phone-in to date, and blimey Charlie I've heard the full gamut of IQs in freefall over the years. I bet right now she thinks she showed that radio presenter a thing or two and is likely proud of putting him in his place, or something asinine. Sometimes I really hate...people.

Talking of hating people, I see that Trump's approval ratings are going -up- as the US's Covid situation worsens by the hour. He's now intending on kickstarting normality by Easter. All the while we have folks such as the Lt Gov of Texas who's confirmed he'd rather die than see the US economy go through the consequences of lockdowns and distancing. I'm assuming he's not talking on behalf of all 45 million US residents who are 65 or older.


https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/23/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-says-bad-economy-worse-coronavirus/

"Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick told Fox News on Monday that he would rather perish from the new coronavirus than see the economy destroyed for his grandchildren by overreaction to the disease."
"Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, chiming in to support President Donald Trump's new focus on the economy over fierce warnings from public health officials, suggested on Fox News on Monday night that he would rather die from the rapid spread of the novel coronavirus than see instability in the American economic system.

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?' And if that's the exchange, I'm all in," he said. "And that doesn't make me noble or brave or anything like that."
 
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SHD

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The French directorate-general of Health and SNCF have announced that a medicalised TGV will enter service tomorrow. It will be used to transfer patients from areas under extreme pressure at the moment in the Eastern part of the country to other hospitals in the West.

This train-hospital has been converted from a regular Duplex trainset. Each trailer has a capacity of up to 4 patients, installed on stretchers over the regular seats. The bar coach is occupied by medical equipment.

No English source at the moment but here is a link to a video in French: https://www.lci.fr/population/coron...medicalise-vers-pays-de-la-loire-2148995.html
This video shows the proof-of-concept of this TGV-hospital which was tried in 2019.
 
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Cowley

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The French directorate-general of Health and SNCF have announced that a medicalised TGV will enter service tomorrow. It will be used to transfer patients from areas under extreme pressure at the moment in the Eastern part of the country to other hospitals in the West.

This train-hospital has been converted from a regular a Duplex trainset. Each trailer has a capacity of up to 4 patients, installed on stretchers over the regular seats. The bar coach is occupied by medical equipment.

No English source at the moment but here is a link to a video in French: https://www.lci.fr/population/coron...medicalise-vers-pays-de-la-loire-2148995.html
This video shows the proof-of-concept of this TGV-hospital which was tried in 2019.
That’s seems like a good concept to me.
 
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