D365
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Yikes, I wouldn't want to put 750V and several hundred-odd amps through a USB..!
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Battery Powered Electrostars for Southern
- Thread starter jopsuk
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Yikes, I wouldn't want to put 750V and several hundred-odd amps through a USB..!
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We can just get USB-IF to ratify the Dellner connector as "USB Type D".
paul1609
Established Member
Youre obviously a senior network rail engineer or possibly work for the Orr?
I take it plan is if the unit runs out of charge, customers will be invited to plug in their mobile phones which will (in the network rail fantasy world) be used to power the unit back to Oxted?
Fincra5
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More likely SNs 73202 would be fitted with a Delner for Rescuing, if possible of course. Bit like a 37 or 57.
Fincra5
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From that Uckfield News Article:
A spokesperson for GTR, the parent company of train operator Southern, told us: “The rolling stock leasing company is in discussions with GTR and the Department for Transport about potential replacements for the Class 171s.
“A range of proposals is currently under consideration and we are unable to offer any additional information at this stage.
“We will retain the Class 171 fleet until a suitable replacement has been identified and made available.”
A spokesperson for GTR, the parent company of train operator Southern, told us: “The rolling stock leasing company is in discussions with GTR and the Department for Transport about potential replacements for the Class 171s.
“A range of proposals is currently under consideration and we are unable to offer any additional information at this stage.
“We will retain the Class 171 fleet until a suitable replacement has been identified and made available.”
paul1609
Established Member
Going by Southerns performance in recovering the 377 that was stranded at Tonbridge by the landslip, you know the one thats now covered in graffiti and with the toilets overflowing on the floor, a 377 running out of charge on Marshlink would close the line for 5 weeks while the loco was sent down.
The first rail replacement bus would arrive after 4 weeks but the emergency call points would still just hang up on you when you enquired about services. The Rye ticket office would be closed because of staff sickness throughout as is normal during disruption.
Fincra5
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I am surprised they've not swapped the unit over at Selhurst. Get an SE Driver to take it (who signs 377s).
Just a thought - hasn’t it been proven on the BML that a 57(?) can haul a 377 in service? So theoretically it might be easier to fit a 377 with batteries for hotel power only, and use a diesel to haul? Admittedly it might require a run around at uckfield and ashford, but the loco(s) could live at oxted and Hastings respectively and haul the dead sections?
One of the aims is to go green though.
Or alternatively one of the aims is to use these two diesel islands as guinea pigs and if it all goes wrong the service will just be trashed! What does seem clear is there is little time to convert the first unit, and get it tested, and then convert the remaining units in time for the suggested withdrawal of the 171s in the summer of 2021
Mikey C
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Seems bizarre to be planning these changes on the basis of using what is completely unproven technology. Uckfield in particular is hardly a quiet branch line to test out whether battery Electrostars actually are viable in service
Quick change battery packs are the answer!
There has already been a battery Electrostar, so it isn’t totally new tech
paul1609
Established Member
The one that run around on occasionally on battery power on ac lines just in case it failed and was quietly withdrawn after 6 weeks because the batteries were shagged? (despite all the triumphant press releases).
Doesn't inspire much confidence tbh.
I think they call that a ‘valuable learning experience’
They could of course off-peak use them between oxted and uckfield only during the day as additional services. It is fairly quiet between 11 and 3
D365
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It wasn't "quietly withdrawn", it was always only intended to be a short term proof of concept.
And what's the issue with running it under AC? The IPEMU project served its purpose.
I think they call that a ‘valuable learning experience’
You might be being sarcastic, but the data gleaned was very beneficial...
They learned a lot from 379013 namely more battery capacity and choose a reliable battery provider.
Not having a pantograph + transformer means plenty more space available and weight allowable than the 379 case.
The 379 was very much an easy to do trial for learning experiences than a proper in service trial.
The trial battery provider also supplied the problem batteries for the original NBfL's which also didn't last long.
The battery supplier went bust and was bought by a competitor...
So in this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-170s.202522/ it is suggested that battery Electrostars can only be 3 carriages long and they might infill the 3rd rail. Latter seems unlikely.
It does all seem very quiet on what is happening?
It does all seem very quiet on what is happening?
Southern Dvr
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I’m guessing this is a bit on the back burner right now!
paul1609
Established Member
I think it had been on the back burner for sometime tbh. Good theory but totally impractical in practise.
Well that’s true! It’s unclear that it has ever got to the front burner though, which the change coming up soon in railway terms seems odd.
As good news gets broadcast far and wide you have to wonder if bad news is coming and then whether the bad news is for Southern or EMR passengers
And what are you going to connect those substations too?I guess its impossible to build substations...
See my recent comment in the electrification % thread:
"...
DNO supplies in the area are rubbish (minimal spare capacity as they thought they wouldn't need much in the middle of green belt / National Park / AONB etc... hence it will be a very long 33kV extension lead for substations...) The Redhill - Tonbridge line power supply is very poor before anyone gets too excited. The best opportunity is probably a feed from Dormans 132kV substation at 33kV. The Dormans - Pembury 132kV cable east of that is effectively maxed out (inc. resilience allowance) which suggests a Nat Grid 400KV intervention might be needed (passes a couple of miles south of Uckfield near the A22/A26 roundabout). Everything (not just rail) in the wider Sussex area (from coast to M25) is fed from Bolney GSP at 400kV (~2km west of BML at Haywayds Heath)"
Fincra5
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And what are you going to connect those substations too?
See my recent comment in the electrification % thread:
"...
DNO supplies in the area are rubbish (minimal spare capacity as they thought they wouldn't need much in the middle of green belt / National Park / AONB etc... hence it will be a very long 33kV extension lead for substations...) The Redhill - Tonbridge line power supply is very poor before anyone gets too excited. The best opportunity is probably a feed from Dormans 132kV substation at 33kV. The Dormans - Pembury 132kV cable east of that is effectively maxed out (inc. resilience allowance) which suggests a Nat Grid 400KV intervention might be needed (passes a couple of miles south of Uckfield near the A22/A26 roundabout). Everything (not just rail) in the wider Sussex area (from coast to M25) is fed from Bolney GSP at 400kV (~2km west of BML at Haywayds Heath)"
I'm sure they'll find a way. Just requires the money! Haha.
Railway track is a great way of adding electricity capacity without causing too much disruption. You can run various types of HV cable either on cable trays or buried in the embankment. If there is spare capacity at any Sussex substations then you just run a feed along the railway corridor.
davyp
Member
Near-tautology alert!
Lots of money, lots and lots of money. EMR and the ROSCOs will presumably be paying
Thought not!
It will be a very very long length of (chunky/expensive) cable along side the railway line.
32-47miles along side the track till you reach a decent supply point with spare capacity from the furthest extreme at Uckfield.
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