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Government advice discussion

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Bantamzen

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You are being tracked at all times anyway. This website is tracking you now. It has to go be able to send you the data to the correct ip address.

The fact people are ignoring the advice of the medical professionals and putting lives at risk is abhorent.
I using data in this way will give these people more information and help build a better model.

I don't know how people don't get this.
Its a totally unknown disease at the moment.

Flu etc we have had decades to study and they can predict with pretty good accuracy how it will spread and what % will get. Plus there is a vaccination. This has none of that data in any significant amount nor is there a vaccination. Using information if available will help the developing situation and along with home testing may allow the country to start moving again.

To quote Ars:

https://arstechnica.com/science/202...elines-for-hospitals-in-the-time-of-covid-19/

The more data we have the better to keep everything moving and people alive. Not just those with underlying problems (however this dosnt seem to be as true as it used to) but people who have accidents or need a Dr for other reasons. These are just as much of dying due to not enough resources.

Anyother final quote from the same article

https://arstechnica.com/science/202...elines-for-hospitals-in-the-time-of-covid-19/

I'm perfectly aware that our mobile devices are capable of tracking us, I regularly use this feature in my day-to-day life so that does not concern me. What does is the proposition that governments proactively use them to track citizens so that they can enforce regulations. You might think its a pragmatic solution to stopping people moving about, or collecting medical data, but as I said once gained these powers will be difficult to remove. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, so as a society we need to think long & hard about just what we allow to be given over in the name of our good.
 
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nidave

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I'm perfectly aware that our mobile devices are capable of tracking us, I regularly use this feature in my day-to-day life so that does not concern me. What does is the proposition that governments proactively use them to track citizens so that they can enforce regulations. You might think its a pragmatic solution to stopping people moving about, or collecting medical data, but as I said once gained these powers will be difficult to remove. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, so as a society we need to think long & hard about just what we allow to be given over in the name of our good.
You need to realise people are dying because idiots are not following the rules - they are putting other peoples lives at risk - if people were not selfish then this measure would not be nessesary -you might survive this but others wont through no fault of their own due to the selfish actions of those who think the rules dont apply to them.

Why enforce speeding or stopping people jumping level crossings with cameras then - same thing - recording of images for the purpose of law enforcement could be argued is a breech of civil liberties or having CCTV in shops or on the streets being looked at by people at all times. Same thing
 

Ianno87

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Rather disturbing report on my BBC local news bulletin that some police forces are stopping people in cars, on bikes or on foot and making up their own laws about what they are allowed to do, where they can do it and how long for.

For the record, the government advice says you're allowed out for one type of exercise a day. There are no laws stating that you can't drive to a local beauty spot to walk your dog, not are there any laws saying that you can't go on a bike ride along quiet country lanes several miles from your home.

Here's a quote from The Derbyshire Roads Policing Unit
"Essential travel and local exercise does not include driving to locations and going for walks. It does not include lycra-clad leisure cycling on the now quieter roads."

Source; https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/live-coronavirus-updates-after-first-3984898

Why are they making up this complete nonsense?

I refer you to this post from another Covid-19 thread and in particular the last sentence (my bold):
"Clearing the roads of non-essential travel is a good way to help achieve this."

I agree that driving to go for a walk is nonsense and to be discouraged. Otherwise we'll end up with the Snowdonia nonsense again this weekend.

Though taking your bike out for a ride (of reasonable length) starting and ending at your own house and using roads to do so *is* legimate exercise, as long as not in a group.
 

Bletchleyite

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Why are they making up this complete nonsense?

I can see their argument about driving to honey pots (and strongly suspect something about that will be in Bojo's afternoon chat today), but it absolutely does include the "lycra clad cycling" bit. Some Police Forces and Officers do seem to like being judge, jury and executioner, though.
 

krus_aragon

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I agree that driving to go for a walk is nonsense and to be discouraged. Otherwise we'll end up with the Snowdonia nonsense again this weekend.
I'll confess that I drove off somewhere yesterday to go for a walk (after dropping off a skype-enabled tabled at the in-laws' house). I'm full of coughs and sniffles at the moment, so drove past the small groups walking in our local area to go somewhere I'd be far away from others.

(I went for a walk in a secluded churchyard, where I was completely alone. Nothing morbid about the destination: I grew up accompanying my father in trawling graveyards looking for the particulars of such-and-such that he was writing a book about. And the sunny views over the sea were very pleasant. But I'll be staying at home again throughout today, and probably the weekend too.)
 

Ianno87

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I can see their argument about driving to honey pots (and strongly suspect something about that will be in Bojo's afternoon chat today), but it absolutely does include the "lycra clad cycling" bit. Some Police Forces and Officers do seem to like being judge, jury and executioner, though.

Cycling is legitimate exercise though. The newly passed legislation does not exclude it.

Or ar what point does it become "lycra clad" and thus unreasonable?
 

Bantamzen

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You need to realise people are dying because idiots are not following the rules - they are putting other peoples lives at risk - if people were not selfish then this measure would not be nessesary -you might survive this but others wont through no fault of their own due to the selfish actions of those who think the rules dont apply to them.

Why enforce speeding or stopping people jumping level crossings with cameras then - same thing - recording of images for the purpose of law enforcement could be argued is a breech of civil liberties or having CCTV in shops or on the streets being looked at by people at all times. Same thing

Its a massive difference in having security measures in place to prevent crime, and proactively monitoring people's every movement regardless of whether they are doing. For example how would you determine if someone was being "selfish" purely by their GPS position? Someone committing a crime on CCTV is, well guilty. Someone walking down a road during the crisis is probably not. Are you proposing that they should be somehow warned off or even stopped by Police for doing so purely on this basis?
 

yorksrob

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I can see their argument about driving to honey pots (and strongly suspect something about that will be in Bojo's afternoon chat today), but it absolutely does include the "lycra clad cycling" bit. Some Police Forces and Officers do seem to like being judge, jury and executioner, though.

We know from our own experience of using the railway, that some officials are wont to embellish rules to what they think they should be, rather than what they actually are. I would hope that the Home Office keep a close eye on things to ensure that we don't see 'guidance creep'.
 

trainophile

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How can they prove you are driving somewhere to go for a walk, rather than for a shopping trip? Many people don't live in walking distance of a shop and would have to use the car to get their essential supplies.
 

Dr Hoo

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How can they prove you are driving somewhere to go for a walk, rather than for a shopping trip? Many people don't live in walking distance of a shop and would have to use the car to get their essential supplies.
Well, in the Peak District we were overrun with people driving out from nearby towns and cities to park up (sometimes dangerously) along narrow roads before setting off in hiking boots miles from the nearest shop. Possibly a bit of a clue there?
It was even more bizarre that last weekend's carbourne invasion led to the only local garage running out of diesel - which really is essential in a rural area with isolated elderly people to supply, animals to care for, etc. And the garage is 'manual service' only, so the proprietor had to socially interact with hoards of people who had come from local Covid hotspot in Sheffield.
You couldn't make it up.
 

ainsworth74

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I have until April 30 to get things out if I choose to do it so I may well leave things be for a wee while but I've essentially said that so long as we fill up on fuel before leaving, and don't stop anywhere en route, I can essentially limit social contact to the person I give the keys to.

My university has said there'll be no more face-to-face teaching for us again (I'm a final year) so really I'd rather keep the £1,400.

The regulations published may now have the answer to this question. Regulation 6:

Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

...

(l) to move house where reasonably necessary;

...
 

Meerkat

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My parents house move got canned.
The removers refused to accept liability (presumably because their insurance wouldn’t) if they didn’t have enough staff on the day - so the client could be responsible for the costs for the whole collapsed chain.
Also the solicitors were concerned that if the seller had Covid at move date the buyer could say the house wasn’t fit to move into without professional cleaning - again risking chain collapse and liability for everyone’s costs.
 

Bletchleyite

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My parents house move got canned.
The removers refused to accept liability (presumably because their insurance wouldn’t) if they didn’t have enough staff on the day - so the client could be responsible for the costs for the whole collapsed chain.
Also the solicitors were concerned that if the seller had Covid at move date the buyer could say the house wasn’t fit to move into without professional cleaning - again risking chain collapse and liability for everyone’s costs.

TBH I'd suggest it'd make most sense for people to be reasonable and pause the chain (but keep agreements in place) until this lockdown period is over. Though I think things like job losses may well cause many chains to collapse.

The upside of that is probably a reduction in house prices.
 

Meerkat

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TBH I'd suggest it'd make most sense for people to be reasonable and pause the chain (but keep agreements in place) until this lockdown period is over. Though I think things like job losses may well cause many chains to collapse.

The upside of that is probably a reduction in house prices.

I am glad it collapsed TBH. Both are in their 70’s and mum has iffy health. Would much rather they stayed tucked away in a familiar house for the duration
 

_toommm_

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Ironically I’ve just received this from my accomodation - TL:DR advising the opposite of what has been said upthread. I’m by no means putting into disrepute what anyone else has said, just thought it was apt timing:

Dear Tom

In light of new government advice, please note that travelling to your home is not classed as essential travel.

The updated advice is as follows:

The Government’s advice is that students remaining at university in England should now stay where they are and not attempt to travel. If they are living in student halls, or private rented accommodation, they should remain there and stay indoors while current restrictions are in force. As the Prime Minister said, staying put and remaining indoors are now crucial to slow the rate of transmission of COVID-19, to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed, and save the lives of fellow citizens.

Please remember we are not accepting guests in the village currently. Only residents will be allowed in the village to protect our staff and other residents.



A reminder of the government advice on social distancing is:

You should only leave the house (your flat or studio) for very limited purposes:

  • shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
  • one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household (people in your flat).
  • any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
  • travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.
These reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.
 

Domh245

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I'd be minded to agree with your accommodation provider. "to move house where reasonably necessary" wouldn't cover moving back to your parents house because you can, I expect the intention with that is where tenancy agreements are ending or accommodation no longer being fit for purpose.
 

rg177

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The regulations published may now have the answer to this question. Regulation 6:

I'm going to enter discussions about this with the provider as it sounds like, in actuality, they'll leave my belongings as they are until the end of the actual tenancy (18 Jul) and my door would just be locked so as to not work with my key fob.

After all, nobody else is going to move in until then.
 

Jayden99

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This seems as good a thread as any to ask this. I'm starting with EMR from St Pancras on the 20th of April (still happening just with online training thank god) but I've already signed a lease for a flat in and around London. I'm moving from Glasgow and just plan on using the van of a family member. I read on the BBC that there's no reason not to move since I can do it with social distancing but I'm worried if the police are stopping people and asking about journeys
 

Esker-pades

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@_toommm_

Not sure what your university has said, but mine has sent an email which includes this:

Essential travel excludes students returning home
I know that this will come as a huge disappointment, but the Minister of State for Universities, Michelle Donelan MP, has announced that students wishing to travel home cannot do this, since it is no longer classed as “essential travel”. As a result, you will need to stay in your current accommodation. If you have concerns or need assistance in any way, our Accommodations team is here to help you. Please contact them at....
 

telstarbox

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This seems as good a thread as any to ask this. I'm starting with EMR from St Pancras on the 20th of April (still happening just with online training thank god) but I've already signed a lease for a flat in and around London. I'm moving from Glasgow and just plan on using the van of a family member. I read on the BBC that there's no reason not to move since I can do it with social distancing but I'm worried if the police are stopping people and asking about journeys
Moving house is allowed (see post #582 above).
 

bussnapperwm

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There is a bit of bother with those working in the construction industry, government seems to be saying yes, police seem to be saying no. There has been confusion regarding this all week and its all a bit of a mess.

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/03/27/police-threaten-to-fine-contractors-on-way-to-work/

I believe that construction workers are key workers, especially those working on hospitals, fire, ambulance and police stations, as well as government and municipal buildings.
 

Darandio

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I believe that construction workers are key workers, especially those working on hospitals, fire, ambulance and police stations, as well as government and municipal buildings.

They are small minority of the overal construction workforce though. We are currently surrounded by three building sites for the local housing association, all the sites have remained busy all week and blokes are constantly in and out of 5mx3m portakabins. That cannot be right, they aren't required right now.

Incidentally in a time when there is all the talk of support and hardship for people affected, there has been no communication whatsoever from the same housing association apart from an email telling you to try and pay your rent online instead.
 

Cowley

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They are small minority of the overal construction workforce though. We are currently surrounded by three building sites for the local housing association, all the sites have remained busy all week and blokes are constantly in and out of 5mx3m portakabins. That cannot be right, they aren't required right now.

Incidentally in a time when there is all the talk of support and hardship for people affected, there has been no communication whatsoever from the same housing association apart from an email telling you to try and pay your rent online instead.
Similar experience here. Non stop concrete lorries going backwards and forwards to a new housing estate in Crediton.
In no way is that essential work.
 

Darandio

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Similar experience here. Non stop concrete lorries going backwards and forwards to a new housing estate in Crediton.
In no way is that essential work.

Of course it isn't. It's quite funny really, i've been shouted down on here for criticising how slow the response has been to this situation stating it's great in hindsight. Here is a perfect example of it still happening.
 

Tetchytyke

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Why are they making up this complete nonsense?

Because if you give the police an inch they'll take a mile. Look at the police in Coventry getting a barbecue to disperse by smashing all their stuff up. I don't recall the emergency legislation giving those powers to the bizzies.

Here our government have imposed a blanket 40mph speed limit. It will reduce accidents and discourage leisure driving without the police having to make rules up as they go along.
 

Tetchytyke

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You need to realise people are dying because idiots are not following the rules

Citation please.

There is also disagreement about what the rules should be. Some other countries are less strict, others more so.

Giving police powers to snoop to the level you propose is a very slippery slope. If you're prepared to trade liberty for security, you deserve neither.
 

Tetchytyke

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Moving house is allowed (see post #582 above).

But getting someone to move your furniture is not specifically permitted, the guidance on trades is vague.

It is worse here. I was meant to be moving from temporary rented accommodation (thankfully rented off a friend) to permanent rented accommodation today, but the removal company is ordered by law to be shut, as are car/van rental companies. So we've not moved. Heck knows what will happen. The whole thing is just stupid.
 
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