Unexpected trains as substitute traction.

Christmas · 29 Mar 2020

Talking to a ScotRail driver recently he mentioned that he once took a Class 156 from Glasgow Central to Carlisle on hire to Virgin as no electric trains could move owing to overhead damage. The train was summoned at short notice and was packed with passengers for London. He was route conducted to Carlisle by a Virgin driver at 75mph on the West Coast Main Line.

I've also read on this forum that a Pacer made it to King's Cross to replace an East Coast service. Are there any other examples of unexpected or inappropriate traction turning up in service?

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yorkie · 29 Mar 2020

Totally inappropriate or just unexpected?

There is a huge difference!

The title says one thing but your post says another (you could alter one or the other to avoid a confusion, if you like)

185143 · 30 Mar 2020

I had a 4 car 755 from Diss to Ipswich a bit ago running instead of an 8 car 321. It was swapped at Ipswich

47827 · 30 Mar 2020

Loads of them. Whilst changes in traction on loco hauled trains are a seperate topic a few complete changes of train type I can recall include:
47813 on about 10 railtour mk1s on a Sunday in 1996 covering for a failed HST working Hereford to Paddington via Worcester. A common event up til the early 1990s but by then very rare and a true one off.

A few weeks of class 158 shortages resulting in the 06xx Manchester Airport to Edinburgh and 18xx return being 4 mk2s top and tailed with mostly virgin or Fragonset 47s. The first day was 47488 was a class 86 doing the 2 legs between Edinburgh to Carstairs and ECS to and from Longsight.

A few classes (47/57/67) had brief spells on Grand Central with loco hauled trains operating between York and Sunderland vice hst during 2008. The trains ran shuttles with connections onto GNER.

Can recall Virgin hiring a few things off Central Trains to cover a mix of loco hauled or 158 diagrams between Birmingham and Manchester. Recall dmu classes being 156 and 158s on odd occasions plus a 310 emu at least once. Scotrail 158s also made it to England with Virgin an odd time. 158 diagrams were also subbed with fun sized hsts with an infamous working of 2 trailers and 2 power cars reportedly with insane acceleration from what the guard told me who worked part the job.

On the inappropriate/unusual topic I think the 142s working vice class 158 when Liverpool to Newcastle loco hauled trains ended. It resulted in some catering trolley issues I heard at the time.

Turning up in North Wales in summer 1995 where there were 31s, 37s and 47s plus hsts on the mainline to find a dmu being dragged to Blaenau Ffestiniog and back on the last service of the day after it'd been rescued by a railfreight coal liveried class 31. The dmu was then dragged back to Chester on the last passenger service of the night. First generation dmu drags by locos were rare by that point and this was one of the last in the UK I'm aware of.

150s working long distances on services now under the TFW banner are a regular one up until recently.

There's so many that I can probably recall but that gets the ball rolling.

4REP · 30 Mar 2020

Christmas said:
Talking to a ScotRail driver recently he mentioned that he once took a Class 156 from Glasgow Central to Carlisle on hire to Virgin as no electric trains could move owing to overhead damage. The train was summoned at short notice and was packed with passengers for London. He was route conducted to Carlisle by a Virgin driver at 75mph on the West Coast Main Line.

I've also read on this forum that a Pacer made it to King's Cross to replace an East Coast service. Are there any other examples of unexpected or inappropriate traction turning up in service?

Class 321/9s made it to KX on GNER services from Leeds I think back in early 2000s when the 225 fleet were grounded (can't remember why) but I know the 225 fleet were grounded in 1998 due to wheel cracks after an incident at Sandy.

185143 · 30 Mar 2020

On the last day of 2+8 HSTs on GWR, I was waiting for a train from Newton Abbott to Hayle which the PIS said had 3 coaches. Was expecting a 158 or a 150/0.

Was very surprised to see a 2+3 HST roll in, a phrase relating to brown stuff and shovels sprung to mind when that set off!

Neptune · 30 Mar 2020

4REP said:
Class 321/9s made it to KX on GNER services from Leeds I think back in early 2000s when the 225 fleet were grounded (can't remember why) but I know the 225 fleet were grounded in 1998 due to wheel cracks after an incident at Sandy.

That was the reason. A wheel set sheered on a mk4 and the fleet were grounded pending checks.

2x 321/9’s were used to run a service as well as a couple of hired in 317/6’s from WAGN.

STEVIEBOY1 · 30 Mar 2020

Christmas said:
Talking to a ScotRail driver recently he mentioned that he once took a Class 156 from Glasgow Central to Carlisle on hire to Virgin as no electric trains could move owing to overhead damage. The train was summoned at short notice and was packed with passengers for London. He was route conducted to Carlisle by a Virgin driver at 75mph on the West Coast Main Line.

I've also read on this forum that a Pacer made it to King's Cross to replace an East Coast service. Are there any other examples of unexpected or inappropriate traction turning up in service?

I like the idea of a pacer replacing an East Coast service to King's Cross, I hope it had a good number of carriages, I wonder where it came from and how fast it was able to get. ?

(Mind you I did a trip on one some years ago all the way from Leeds to Lancaster, I must admit I was surprised, I was expecting it to be some type of sprinter type train 150-159 series)

CBlue · 30 Mar 2020

Perhaps not quite as far as Leeds, and less unusual five years ago but getting off a Eurostar to find the peak hour Cambridge non-stop was formed of a 321 was a slight surprise. The poor thing felt like it was struggling to move on the inclines!

Bletchleyite · 30 Mar 2020

185143 said:
On the last day of 2+8 HSTs on GWR, I was waiting for a train from Newton Abbott to Hayle which the PIS said had 3 coaches. Was expecting a 158 or a 150/0.

Was very surprised to see a 2+3 HST roll in, a phrase relating to brown stuff and shovels sprung to mind when that set off!

Virgin XC used 2+2 HSTs to substitute for failed 158s on occasions. I bet those went!

rogercov · 30 Mar 2020

I don't think anything beats Tornado rescuing stranded commuters in the snow in Dec 2009

47827 · 30 Mar 2020

rogercov said:
I don't think anything beats Tornado rescuing stranded commuters in the snow in Dec 2009

A steam loco on a move back south off the North Yorkshire Moors worked a short leg on the Whitby line vice dmu a few years ago to rescue passengers. Stock was a Mk1 brake vehicle I think. Can't recall the distance it ran in service.

norbitonflyer · 30 Mar 2020

I did read of a class 74+TC combination, which had somehow ended up back to front at Waterloo, and was put right way round by deputising for the more usual rolling stock on a Kingston Loop service.

During a strike in the early 1980s, I saw an 8-car formation of class 114s (more normally found in Lincolnshire) at Kings Cross, about to set off on a stopper to Finsbury Park, Hatfield, Welwyn GC and all stations to Doncaster.

Recently mentioned on another thread a class 419 on battery power pressed into service as a (standing room only) shuttle between Dover Marine and Priory as the result of a power failure on the branch

pdeaves · 30 Mar 2020

If I remember correctly, a steam train substituted for, or replaced, a service train on the Settle & Carlisle once.
A favourite was the pacer (143) that ran a Cornwall-London service (I think it was stopped at somewhere like Reading).

I am sure experts/those who log these things will be able to fill in the details.

PHILIPE · 30 Mar 2020

pdeaves said:
If I remember correctly, a steam train substituted for, or replaced, a service train on the Settle & Carlisle once.
A favourite was the pacer (143) that ran a Cornwall-London service (I think it was stopped at somewhere like Reading).

I am sure experts/those who log these things will be able to fill in the details.

And the Wales and West 143 that ran from Cardiff to Paddington in about 1997

D1537 · 30 Mar 2020

73108+73134 reaching Birmingham on the Portsmouth-Manchester in 1982 (and then going back as well!)
During the Pacer crisis on Tyneside in the 80s, Gateshead and Heaton conspired to send some ludicrous combinations out on the locals. My favourite was the Class 56 with 2 Mk2a BFKs, and I had 47219+BG+one of the Mk2d/e coaches then used on the East Coast sleepers.
The preserved Western D1015 rescuing a HST has to be up there somewhere as well.

bnsf734 · 30 Mar 2020

Long while ago now but I used to commute from Nuneaton to Nottingham daily in 1977/78. My normal train was a Class 120 cross country DMU which ran on a Birmingham New Street to Nottingham service via Leicester.

One Monday morning I was very surprised when 40030 arrived at Nuneaton on 3 mark 1 coaches on the service! Class 40s were always rare in Nottingham. 2 days later I had a class 31 on this train but then it settled down back to normality.

61653 HTAFC · 30 Mar 2020

STEVIEBOY1 said:
I like the idea of a pacer replacing an East Coast service to King's Cross, I hope it had a good number of carriages, I wonder where it came from and how fast it was able to get. ? (Mind you I did a trip on one some years ago all the way from Leeds to Lancaster, I must admit I was surprised, I was expecting it to be some type of sprinter type train 150-159 series)

Then it's rather a shame that there's a 99.99999% chance that this (a Pacer to Kings Cross) never happened. Every so often a thread comes up about Pacers in London or nearby, and the 143 to Paddington inevitably comes up... but accounts vary in terms of how close to Paddington it got before being stopped. I've yet to see any photographic evidence of said move actually reaching Paddington.

Leeds to Lancaster on the other hand was a Pacer hotspot for decades up until late 2019.

In terms of substitutions, my personal fave was a 101 which found itself on a Manchester Victoria to Wakefield Westgate in 2000.

PHILIPE · 30 Mar 2020

I was at Carlisle once waiting to to travel south when there was a fire on the loco working a Motorail at Lockerbie which stopped the job. A Class 101 DMU was provided to run us from Carlisle to Crewe. If I remember we lost about 50 minutes on the normal schedule and must have been around 1990

Bringback309s · 30 Mar 2020

PHILIPE said:
And the Wales and West 143 that ran from Cardiff to Paddington in about 1997

That substituted for a 158 - there was a regular late night 158 that went into Paddington which I used a few times - infact I got on it at Abergavveny on the inbound service that it was formed from, the guard happy for me to stay on. Heard about the 143 but never saw it!

MatthewRead · 30 Mar 2020

rogercov said:
I don't think anything beats Tornado rescuing stranded commuters in the snow in Dec 2009

Thought it was Tangmere. 21st December 2009 if I remember correctly.

Whistler40145 · 30 Mar 2020

I remember coming back from London Euston to Blackpool North sometime in the late 1970s/early 1980s, was a Summer Saturday evening, there’d been a big football match on at Wembley and had to catch a Sleeper train to Crewe because the last service to Blackpool North was full, we arrived at Crewe where British Rail had three 2 car DMUs ready as a substitute which worked through to Preston, including going via Walton Old Junction to Warrington Bank Quay, on arrival at Preston, we were surprised to see a rake of Mark 1s with a 40 for less than 10 passengers

keith1879 · 30 Mar 2020

Some time between 1978 and 1990 (honestly don't know when) my morning Davenport to Manchester DMU was hauled by a Class 47. It had presumably come all the way from Buxton. I do recollect that it was April 1st and wondering if it was some kind of elaborate joke. The accelaration was excellent.

Polarbear · 30 Mar 2020

61653 HTAFC said:
Then it's rather a shame that there's a 99.99999% chance that this (a Pacer to Kings Cross) never happened. Every so often a thread comes up about Pacers in London or nearby, and the 143 to Paddington inevitably comes up... but accounts vary in terms of how close to Paddington it got before being stopped. I've yet to see any photographic evidence of said move actually reaching Paddington.

My recollection is that a pacer did make it to Paddington on one occasion. There was a late evening diagram from Cardiff that was booked a Wales & West 158 (many years back). It was booked off Paddington at 00:45, which may explain the lack of evidence.

There were plenty of "oddball" workings in BR days. For me, the moment a pair of 73's came into New Street on a Cross Country train from Reading would take some beating. Apparently, the booked traction had failed earlier in the day and the two ED's were only supposed to go as far as Basingstoke.

Another was a Llandudno - Euston relief train, which 24081 took all the way to the blocks in London back in the late 1970's. No spare electric available to take it over at Crewe!.

70014IronDuke · 30 Mar 2020

MatthewRead said:
Thought it was Tangmere. 21st December 2009 if I remember correctly.

It was definitely a Bulleid pacific. There was another instance, was it a strike, when what would have been an ECS move picked up regular passengers on a Kent run. Perhaps that was Tornado, I forget.

SECR263 · 30 Mar 2020

Many years ago at Clapham Jct, a Thumper rolled in on stopper from Victoria. It went all stations and I left at Selhurst whence it trundled onwards. The acceleration was a little slow but a rather splendid sound. Would anybody know why is was used on a electric duty?

Whistler40145 · 30 Mar 2020

SECR263 said:
Many years ago at Clapham Jct, a Thumper rolled in on stopper from Victoria. It went all stations and I left at Selhurst whence it trundled onwards. The acceleration was a little slow but a rather splendid sound. Would anybody know why is was used on a electric duty?

Unless the juice was off somewhere on the route or an Uckfield or East Grinstead service?

70014IronDuke · 30 Mar 2020

Where's Taunton or Coppercapped when you need 'em?
Surely one of the most famed substitutes has to be a GWR 57xx 0-6-0PT taking over a Wolverhampton - Paddington express from a failed King (I think - not that a GWR man will ever admit to a King failing

). Was it from somewhere like High Wycombe? Hats off to the pannier and its crew though - ran the whole train into Paddington.

Not quite in the same league, but I did once see an 8F take over from an ailing Class 45 on "The Waverley" in the early days of the Peaks.

And I was waiting at Salisbury for my late-running train to Templecombe in 1965 when into the station came 34001 Exeter (though nameless, I think) taking over from a failed Warship. Mind you, that probably happened about seven days a week back then.

Iskra · 30 Mar 2020

Caledonian Sleeper has been a hotbed of the unexpected in recent years, throwing up 47's, 87's, 90's, 66's, 67's I believe. Did any 86's work passenger services? Also possible were combinations of 73's and 67's. Any other loco types?

Whistler40145 · 30 Mar 2020

Iskra said:
Caledonian Sleeper has been a hotbed of the unexpected in recent years, throwing up 47's, 87's, 90's, 66's, 67's I believe. Did any 86's work passenger services? Also possible were combinations of 73's and 67's. Any other loco types?

I'm not quite sure if either 86101 or 86401 worked the Caledonian Sleepers, 87002 definitely substituted for unavailable 90s or 92s.

Unexpected trains as substitute traction.

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