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Electrification Percentage UK

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Legolash2o

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Does anyone know roughly how much of the UK is OHLE vs DC 3rd Rail vs DC 4th Rail please?

I have calculated the below, but just want to make sure it's correct:

OHLE: 30.71%
DC 3rd: 13.11%
DC 4th: 0.27%
 
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AM9

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Does anyone know roughly how much of the UK is OHLE vs DC 3rd Rail vs DC 4th Rail please?

I have calculated the below, but just want to make sure it's correct:

OHLE: 30.71%
DC 3rd: 13.11%
DC 4th: 0.27%
Is that the number of track miles, route miles, miles run per year, number of trains, number of journeys, etc..
 

Legolash2o

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Ah, that says 38% total so my figures are bit off. Thanks.

May require a potential FOI request.

@AM9, that's track km.
 

Snow1964

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Ah ok.

What's the difference between track and route miles?

One measures running tracks, so a quadruple track would be 4 times a single track, the other ignores number of running lines

There are some sections where not all tracks are electrified, and small number where different systems exist on different tracks which affects the calculations
 

4REP

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There is 9824 miles of track and 3339 miles are electrified including 3rd rail etc etc.so around 37-38%
9824-3339=6485 without electrification.
37-38%
 
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S&CLER

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There is 9824 miles of track and 3339 miles are electrified including 3rd rail etc etc.so around 37-38%
9824-3339=6485 without electrification.
37-38%

To be pedantic, there were in 2019 9824 miles of route and 19,291 miles of track; 8106 miles of track (3339 miles of route)were electrified. The distinction should be carefully observed, and certainly this forum ought to use the terms in their precise meaning. The percentage of track mileage electrified (42%) is higher than the percentage of route mileage, because the electric lines include more multiple track main lines (2.42 miles of electric track per mile of electric route); 11,185 miles of track remain unelectrified.

See a very good article in the latest Modern Railways (April issue), by Richard Harper, calculating how many miles a year we would have to electrify to decarbonise the railways by 2050. He has a fascinating statistic: since the Mersey Railway was the first steam line to electrify its system in 1903, we have reached 8106 miles of electrified track in 115 years, or 70 miles of track a year (to 2018). He doesn't include the mileage of former electric track closed (e.g. Woodhead), de-electrified (e.g. the NE Shildon line) or converted to metro operation (e.g Tyne and Wear or Manchester Metrolink), as not part of National Rail. He doesn't include the London sub-surface lines either, I assume.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Which is why we need to start soon if we are serious. Now I know the UK when it puts its mind to it (Falklands War and WW2 spring to mind) we can get it done by starting the shovel ready and building up speed. I know (not --- I don't think I know) our engineers etc. are up to the task - but is the political will there?
 
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Mikey C

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To be pedantic, there were in 2019 9824 miles of route and 19,291 miles of track; 8106 miles of track (3339 miles of route)were electrified. The distinction should be carefully observed, and certainly this forum ought to use the terms in their precise meaning. The percentage of track mileage electrified (42%) is higher than the percentage of route mileage, because the electric lines include more multiple track main lines (2.42 miles of electric track per mile of electric route); 11,185 miles of track remain unelectrified.

See a very good article in the latest Modern Railways (April issue), by Richard Harper, calculating how many miles a year we would have to electrify to decarbonise the railways by 2050. He has a fascinating statistic: since the Mersey Railway was the first steam line to electrify its system in 1903, we have reached 8106 miles of electrified track in 115 years, or 70 miles of track a year. He doesn't include the mileage of former electric track closed (e.g. Woodhead), de-electrified (e.g. the NE Shildon line) or converted to metro operation (e.g Tyne and Wear or Manchester Metrolink), as not part of National Rail. He doesn't include the London tubes and sub-surface lines either, I assume.

Of more interest to me is the passengers miles % on electrified track, which I believe is something like 60%. Getting that up to say 80% by electrifying the busiest lines seems a better target, as there are many lines with very little traffic which will never be electrified, and will instead use battery or hydrogen or whatever power.
 

S&CLER

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Of more interest to me is the passengers miles % on electrified track, which I believe is something like 60%. Getting that up to say 80% by electrifying the busiest lines seems a better target, as there are many lines with very little traffic which will never be electrified, and will instead use battery or hydrogen or whatever power.

The article by Richard Harper quotes a figure of 80% for passenger miles on electric trains already. I haven't seen a figure for percentage of train-miles electrically hauled, but it must be out there somewhere.
 
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Slightly off topic, but in April's 'Modern Railways' (page 85) there's an article about EMR's 170s and states that 171s will not be transferred from GTR until suitable replacements have been found; it mentions the operational problems fitting batteries to Electrostars will cause (only suitable for trains of three cars) and then states that extension of 3rd rail electrification is now looking more likely, with "a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent"

Anyone know what the short extension on Merseyrail is? And will the 3rd rail extension mentioned regarding class 171s just be to Uckfield or will it include Ashford - Ore as well?
 

Mikey C

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Slightly off topic, but in April's 'Modern Railways' (page 85) there's an article about EMR's 170s and states that 171s will not be transferred from GTR until suitable replacements have been found; it mentions the operational problems fitting batteries to Electrostars will cause (only suitable for trains of three cars) and then states that extension of 3rd rail electrification is now looking more likely, with "a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent"

Anyone know what the short extension on Merseyrail is? And will the 3rd rail extension mentioned regarding class 171s just be to Uckfield or will it include Ashford - Ore as well?

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of more 3rd rail, it would take several years for Uckfield to be electrified, so the 171s will be there for a long time yet!
 
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Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of more 3rd rail, it would take several years for Uckfield to be electrified, so the 171s will be there for a long time yet!

Anyone know how long it would take? If I remember correctly, the Bournemouth electrification was authorised just before the 1964 General Election and electric trains were running by spring/early summer 1967; but that was the inefficient BR. Similarly, wasn't Phase 1 of Kent Coast completed in about three years from authorisation?

Would a new power supply be required for the Uckfield line, or would existing ones be adequate? If the latter is the case, couldn't the branch be electrified very quickly?
 

S&CLER

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Slightly off topic, but in April's 'Modern Railways' (page 85) there's an article about EMR's 170s and states that 171s will not be transferred from GTR until suitable replacements have been found; it mentions the operational problems fitting batteries to Electrostars will cause (only suitable for trains of three cars) and then states that extension of 3rd rail electrification is now looking more likely, with "a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent"

Anyone know what the short extension on Merseyrail is? And will the 3rd rail extension mentioned regarding class 171s just be to Uckfield or will it include Ashford - Ore as well?

The short extension on Merseyrail is from Kirkby to Headbolt Lane, a new station which will serve housing to the NE of Kirkby but, more important, should be a jumping off point for an extension to Skelmersdale (involving a few miles of new branch from near Rainford Junction). Headbolt Lane has been an aspiration for years; it was on the old Solari flap indicators at Sandhills, for example. Personally I think Simonswood (pronounced Simmonswood) would be a more attractive name and geographically accurate, but that's a trivial point.
 
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hwl

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Would a new power supply be required for the Uckfield line,

Yes. a very big YES.

DNO supplies in the area are rubbish (minimal space capacity as they though they wouldn't need much in the middle of green belt / National Park /AONB etc... hence it will in very long extension lead...) The Redhill - Tonbridge line power supply is very poor before anyone gets to excited. The best opportunity is probably a feed from Dormans. The Dormans - Pembury 132kV cable is effectively maxed out which suggest a Nat Grid 400KV intervention might be needed (passes a couple of miles south of Uckfield). Everything in wider Sussex area (from coast to M25) is fed from Bolney GSP (~2km west of BML at Haywayds Heath)
 

Dunfanaghy Rd

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Today's Times:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...t-pollution-rise-from-diesel-trains-3zqhsn8xf
It's behind a paywall I think, but a couple of quotes:
"Now the DfT has signalled that it will push a big programme of electrification as the most efficient way of decarbonising the railway, reversing the policy adopted by Mr Grayling." (The last bit has to be a good starting point.)
"A report (Decarbonising Transport: Setting the Challenge) published this week said that “we recognise that electrifying more of the railway is likely to be necessary to deliver decarbonisation”.
Should I leave the champagne on ice for a bit longer?
Pat
 

Backroom_boy

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JamesT

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Yes so I couldn't see the bit explaining how railway carbon emissions were going to increase by 20% without electricification. Were they projecting a big increase in diesel trains? Or are carbon emissions from rail flatlineing but all other modes are predicted to fall, hence rail being a bigger % of total emissions?

In section 2.41 of the report:
Figure 11 shows our central projection for GHG tailpipe emissions from all passenger and freight trains to 2050. This shows that rail GHG emissions are projected to rise by 19% between 2018 and 2050, against an increase in passenger demand of 60% over the same period. As noted previously, the uncertainty surrounding projections is significant and other outcomes to the one shown are possible.

Historic emissions are final UK GHG statistics. Historic passenger kms are from ORR. Freight emissions
are projected forwards based on demand increases and diesel fuel efficiencies. Passenger emissions
projections assume no future programme of electrification and no introduction of alternatively-powered rolling
stock (for example, battery or hydrogen trains). Passenger demand projections are based on June 2019
exogenous drivers, supplemented with a demand index from the FARM model past 2030/40 and assume
continuation of current service patterns on the network.

So to keep up with the increasing demand on the current network it's going to require increased use of diesel trains.
 

Mikey C

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Taking Chiltern as an example, which has shown constant passenger growth, and where more new housing is being built along the line. Without electrification the only solution would be to significantly expand the DMU fleet to lengthen the services
 

Legolash2o

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To be pedantic, there were in 2019 9824 miles of route and 19,291 miles of track; 8106 miles of track (3339 miles of route)were electrified. The distinction should be carefully observed, and certainly this forum ought to use the terms in their precise meaning. The percentage of track mileage electrified (42%) is higher than the percentage of route mileage, because the electric lines include more multiple track main lines (2.42 miles of electric track per mile of electric route); 11,185 miles of track remain unelectrified.

Does that 42% combine OHLE, 3rd and 4th rail? My values combined are 43% so it would make it pretty close.
 

Legolash2o

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Yes, and see Joseph Locke's post #18 above for point about short sections with dual electrification.

Thanks for confirmation that. I'm going to consider the 43% combined as close enough and I'll do route miles next - just got to figure out which Track Ids I should use (1100, 2100, 3100, 3400, etc). I've tagged the areas with dual electrification so that's already taken into consideration.

Thanks again.
 

59CosG95

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Would an FOI request be able to reveal the feeding arrangements of those lines which are already electrified? (I know it doesn't change much, if at all, with DC, but for AC, it could show which lines have more power restraints than most).
For AC, this would be which lines are fed with Booster Transformers & Return Conductors (BT-RC), Boosterless Classic feeding (Earth Wires, with Return Screening Conductor in cable troughs), or Auto-Transformer feeding (with or without Earth Wires; RSC in troughs).
 

Legolash2o

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Would an FOI request be able to reveal the feeding arrangements of those lines which are already electrified? (I know it doesn't change much, if at all, with DC, but for AC, it could show which lines have more power restraints than most).
For AC, this would be which lines are fed with Booster Transformers & Return Conductors (BT-RC), Boosterless Classic feeding (Earth Wires, with Return Screening Conductor in cable troughs), or Auto-Transformer feeding (with or without Earth Wires; RSC in troughs).

A well worded FOI request could reveal that information as long as you're not asking for exact locations (lat/longs, etc.). A few yeas back they gave me maps on some information on electrification.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Would an FOI request be able to reveal the feeding arrangements of those lines which are already electrified? (I know it doesn't change much, if at all, with DC, but for AC, it could show which lines have more power restraints than most).
For AC, this would be which lines are fed with Booster Transformers & Return Conductors (BT-RC), Boosterless Classic feeding (Earth Wires, with Return Screening Conductor in cable troughs), or Auto-Transformer feeding (with or without Earth Wires; RSC in troughs).
Garry Keenor's book surely has most of this information in the appendix iirc. I will check my copy in the next hour or two.
 

Elecman

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Would an FOI request be able to reveal the feeding arrangements of those lines which are already electrified? (I know it doesn't change much, if at all, with DC, but for AC, it could show which lines have more power restraints than most).
For AC, this would be which lines are fed with Booster Transformers & Return Conductors (BT-RC), Boosterless Classic feeding (Earth Wires, with Return Screening Conductor in cable troughs), or Auto-Transformer feeding (with or without Earth Wires; RSC in troughs).
Knowing who in NR who would provide that type of information you might be waiting a long time for your answer as he is snowed under.
 
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