Coronavirus virus effect on Heritage lines Summer 2020

Flying Phil · 21 Mar 2020

Flying Phil said:
Well I'm reading it.....but I'm only 69.....for the next three weeks....eeeek (elderly moi!) Anyway, given that approx 2,500 people die each week in the UK, I still think the virus is being "over - egged" by sections of the media and by some of the population.....However if you want to support your local line and protect yourself from the slight possibility of illness.....make a donation on line.

.....How rapidly the situation has changed over the past two weeks!......But what can we do? Make a donation for each time we would have gone on our railway would be a good idea if possible.

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Vespa · 21 Mar 2020

East Lancashire Railway have stopped running with immediate effect.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ast-lancashire-heritage-railway-bury-17958804

A popular Bury visitor’s attraction is closing its doors from today with the “wellbeing of employees and volunteers in mind”.

The East Lancashire Railway has stopped running all services with immediate effect.

Bury Transport Museum and the railway’s two pubs, the Trackside and Buffer Stops, will also be closed to the public.

It comes following Government advice on social distancing and the closure of pubs.

The passenger service department has announced it will be in touch directly with customers who are booked onto Diner services and other pre-booked events.

Where a service has been withdrawn, all customers are entitled to a refund.

The railway is now calling for customers to take up the offer of a voucher or a rebooking to help with its “cash flow challenges during this difficult time”.

daodao · 22 Mar 2020

The current Covid-19 crisis is likely to have a severe impact on heritage railways, and many will not survive, even if basically financially sound, as I expect none will operate again in 2020. Those known to have cash-flow problems before the last 2 weeks are particularly at risk. Some that do not reopen in the medium-term (i.e. next year) may eventually be rescued, but many will be gone for ever, as will many of those (including myself) who remember main-line steam pre-1968.

Spagnoletti · 22 Mar 2020

daodao said:
The current Covid-19 crisis is likely to have a severe impact on heritage railways, and many will not survive, even if basically financially sound, as I expect none will operate again in 2020. Those known to have cash-flow problems before the last 2 weeks are particularly at risk. Some that do not reopen in the medium-term (i.e. next year) may eventually be rescued, but many will be gone for ever, as will many of those (including myself) who remember main-line steam pre-1968.

I doubt it will be that extreme. Where the charitable portion is seperate from the commercial portion, for example a trust working alongside a PLC, the PLC may well go under. In many cases the major assets will be protected as they are trust property or rental agreements with local authorities are with the trust. After a while a new PLC will pop up. Recent announcements by the treasury will protect employees in the same way as any other commercial enterprise with staff on PAYE.

reddragon · 22 Mar 2020

The GWsR have a problem due to their latest embankment slip and no income to pay for it.

https://www.gwsr.com/Emergency_Embankment_Appeal.html

[
The GWSR needs URGENT Help
Major landslip at Gotherington endangers future of the line
Funds dry up because of the Coronavirus effect
]

swanhill41 · 23 Mar 2020

Well it looks as though some of the heritage lines may not open at all this year if some of the medical hints come true.?...The problem is that no one can put a time on how long the "state of emergency " is going to last...3 weeks,3 months or whatever...I have already seen that some of major lines,Festiniog,ELR ,KWVR etc have already got the donation /begging bowl out..Like the rest of the country ,things will be different when its over.

Harvey B · 24 Mar 2020

swanhill41 said:
Well it looks as though some of the heritage lines may not open at all this year if some of the medical hints come true.?...The problem is that no one can put a time on how long the "state of emergency " is going to last...3 weeks,3 months or whatever...I have already seen that some of major lines,Festiniog,ELR ,KWVR etc have already got the donation /begging bowl out..Like the rest of the country ,things will be different when its over.

I can see that the major, more known ones will likely survive this because they're likely to receive more donations. The smaller, less known and less established ones will probably not survive this

Vespa · 24 Mar 2020

The only way to survive is to mothballs everything, reduce outgoings cancel electric and gas accounts, coal deliveries etc, volunteers to keep an eye on everything and collectively dip in their pocket to pay for necessities if needed, renegotiate rents or rates if possible, it will be lean times, pretty much like how they first got started.

Back to basics essentially.

lyndhurst25 · 24 Mar 2020

I caught this on the Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway's webcam this morning. With services suspended and no trains for them to haul, three locos under bedsheets (Whillan Beck, ?, Northern Rock) being dragged from the loco shed to the workshop. I was planning on making my first visit of the year to the railway last weekend, but services were stopped that very day. Hope they can reopen soon.

Vespa · 31 Mar 2020

After some very contentious discussions which addresses the fate of heritage railways that's shut down during the outbreak and whether they will survive or die.

Lets turn this round and consider strategies that can help heritage railways to survive the sudden loss of income during the shutdown.

Bletchleyite · 31 Mar 2020

The easiest one is probably just for them all to put out crowdfunders, as well as selling souvenirs and similar online. People who appreciate them who are financially OK will I'm sure donate.

Iskra · 31 Mar 2020

Bletchleyite said:
The easiest one is probably just for them all to put out crowdfunders, as well as selling souvenirs and similar online. People who appreciate them who are financially OK will I'm sure donate.

That's a nice idea and I'm sure some people will put their hands in their pocket, but I think a better way would be to sell 'advance tickets' for the summer at a slight discount or a bigger discount for certain off-peak times or trains, that way it gets the cash in now but also could help get numbers up for the summer and additional people = additional on the day sales of stuff. I think people are more likely to part with their cash in return for something rather than just as a donation. The general public are of course also feeling the squeeze right now. Or do a donation of x amount = 1 free ticket with 12 months validity excluding special events, something like that anyway.

Flying Phil · 31 Mar 2020

There are some good ideas there, but I am sure quite a few of we, older supporters, will feel able to donate on-line. After all we are saving the cost of petrol, tickets, food and drink for the visits that we are not making! We are incredibly fortunate that our income (pension) is not being affected. Alternatively many railways have shares that can be purchased.....

fireftrm · 31 Mar 2020

Iskra said:
That's a nice idea and I'm sure some people will put their hands in their pocket, but I think a better way would be to sell 'advance tickets' for the summer at a slight discount or a bigger discount for certain off-peak times or trains, that way it gets the cash in now but also could help get numbers up for the summer and additional people = additional on the day sales of stuff. I think people are more likely to part with their cash in return for something rather than just as a donation. The general public are of course also feeling the squeeze right now. Or do a donation of x amount = 1 free ticket with 12 months validity excluding special events, something like that anyway.

The problem with this, great an idea as it is, is that we don't know when we can start running again, or what restrictions on public gathering may yet be in place. So selling advance tickets is only going to work if they are non-refundable/exchange for a different date otherwise its just a refund awaiting

theironroad · 31 Mar 2020

Iskra said:
That's a nice idea and I'm sure some people will put their hands in their pocket, but I think a better way would be to sell 'advance tickets' for the summer at a slight discount or a bigger discount for certain off-peak times or trains, that way it gets the cash in now but also could help get numbers up for the summer and additional people = additional on the day sales of stuff. I think people are more likely to part with their cash in return for something rather than just as a donation. The general public are of course also feeling the squeeze right now. Or do a donation of x amount = 1 free ticket with 12 months validity excluding special events, something like that anyway.

A slight twist on that is just issue electronic gift vouchers with a year validity. I imagine most HR sell gift vouchers anyway.

Maybe a £10 face value for £9.00 cost and multiples thereof for use in peak seasonal periods and could do a £10 face value for £8 cost for off peak seasonal periods.

On the checkout page of the website they could then add a donation section with a suggested amount, which could be altered up or downwards as people feel they want or to opt out of making any donation.

Although HR may want to avoid a Ryanair style barage of optional extras, sections on merchandise , pre food order vouchers etc could all be added.

Some HR may do this already, but those that don't and need cash in the bank soon should definitely get a plan going as volunteer skills permitting most could be done from home. Mailing out merchandise could be done too with some thought about where the stock is going to be held.

pdeaves · 31 Mar 2020

Longer term, I think more aggressive marketing may be the order of the day, particularly 'when this is all over'. The campaign planning needs to start now. Obviously, right now that doesn't put cash in the bank but hopefully will improve the bounce-back.

Iskra · 31 Mar 2020

The bounce back should be pretty huge anyway, so railways need to be ready to capitalise on that by being ready for it to maximise revenue gain then. Additionally, due to the vast travel international travel disruption you would expect domestic tourism to reach new heights when this blows over as when we get the 'all clear' here, international destinations may still be affected and lots of people will have refrained from booking/or cancelled their traditional foreign holidays.

Iskra · 31 Mar 2020

ELR General Manager has released a video asking for 'urgent' donations on twitter.

philthetube · 31 Mar 2020

Harvey B said:
I can see that the major, more known ones will likely survive this because they're likely to receive more donations. The smaller, less known and less established ones will probably not survive this

Possibly the smaller ones may do better, as they should be able to reduce expenses to virtually zero.

theironroad said:
A slight twist on that is just issue electronic gift vouchers with a year validity. I imagine most HR sell gift vouchers anyway.

Why put an expiry date on them? much more likely to sell, and probably a better chance of being lost, they are a long term interest free loan until redeemed

Harvey B · 31 Mar 2020

With reports that the "Lockdown" could last until June and social distancing is to be practiced until October, I'm starting think that there could be a chance some (if not, most) heritage railways may not open up this year or if so it would have to be a very short season at the end of the year

theironroad · 31 Mar 2020

philthetube said:
Possibly the smaller ones may do better, as they should be able to reduce expenses to virtually zero.

Why put an expiry date on them? much more likely to sell, and probably a better chance of being lost, they are a long term interest free loan until redeemed

Fair enough, no expiry date might be even more attractive, not sure what the accounting implications are for that though.

R G NOW. · 31 Mar 2020

The severn valley railway were on our local news the other night asking for donations quickly as their money it said is getting low. I thought the government funding would help as it is a business isn't it.

Esker-pades · 31 Mar 2020

R G NOW. said:
The severn valley railway were on our local news the other night asking for donations quickly as their money it said is getting low. I thought the government funding would help as it is a business isn't it.

Virtually all heritage railways are charities.

Harvey B · 31 Mar 2020

R G NOW. said:
The severn valley railway were on our local news the other night asking for donations quickly as their money it said is getting low. I thought the government funding would help as it is a business isn't it.

I think every Major Heritage Railway is asking for donations?

Meerkat · 31 Mar 2020

Once one asks for donations the others wouldn’t want to be the last one asking......

theironroad · 31 Mar 2020

FelixtheCat said:
Virtually all heritage railways are charities.

Are charities not covered by the government scheme announced? Obviously some non railway charities have hundreds of FT employees and many on decent salaries.

Won't the 80% thing cover them as well. I'd hope so and hope any FT employees on PAYE within the heritage sector are also eligible.

theironroad · 31 Mar 2020

Harvey B said:
I think every Major Heritage Railway is asking for donations?

Maybe the umbrella organisation for heritage railways could host a central appeal and they could all agree where to allocate funds raised.

I suppose how much competiveness or cooperation there is between different railways.

Harvey B · 31 Mar 2020

theironroad said:
Maybe the umbrella organisation for heritage railways could host a central appeal and they could all agree where to allocate funds raised.

I suppose how much competiveness or cooperation there is between different railways.

I agree, I don't know why they don't do that. I heard a few weeks ago that the Heritage Railways Association (which I think is the umbrella organisation you're talking about) were to be getting some money off the government but it either that money never got sent to them or it wasn't enough. I guess it's an "if you want things doing, do it yourself" scenario for them. I think the HRA should really start a central appeal which I think more people would be inclined to do rather than donate to each heritage railway individually and it makes sense for them to do that if they don't get enough Govt money, which I doubt they will get enough from them.

Meerkat · 31 Mar 2020

A central appeal wouldn’t have the same impact as appeals by specific lines people associate with.
I am afraid it is, and should be, survival of the fittest. If you have a Railway people want to keep alive they will pay.

philthetube · 31 Mar 2020

theironroad said:
Fair enough, no expiry date might be even more attractive, not sure what the accounting implications are for that though.

Thinking about it, maybe a five year life, they would just have to be shown on the balance sheet as a liability, any unused could be written off at the end of the period.

Coronavirus virus effect on Heritage lines Summer 2020

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