Help with identifying location!

Arglwydd Golau · 2 Apr 2020

Been a while since I updated this thread, a few weeks ago I did spend some time on it but circumstances have somewhat intervened since then! Anyway, I can only locate 14 photos that were taken on the Southern by my father when he was at school, 4 of those are so poor it's not worth trying to identify the location, but then there is this one which is at Redhill. (confirmed in my father's lists). It is a Wainright class F1, all well and good but I can find no mention of this particular loco in the two online lists I know of (BR database and Wiki). Is anyone able to solve this? Added to his notes, at a later date is ?34...which would definitely have been his last year (or partial year at Leatherhead). I wonder if the school club organised a formal visit to the shed (being the nearest) and this thought set me pondering about shed visits in the 1930s. By the 1950s they were commonplace, and I remember a few scrambled visits myself in the 1960's, but in the early days of trainspotting it must have been very different.

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Ash Bridge · 2 Apr 2020

I'm in agreement that it's an F1 as much as I know, I'm also guessing that locomotive was originally numbered 35 when built in 1888 for the SER then renumbered 1035 around 1931.

WesternLancer · 2 Apr 2020

Arglwydd Golau said:
Been a while since I updated this thread, a few weeks ago I did spend some time on it but circumstances have somewhat intervened since then! Anyway, I can only locate 14 photos that were taken on the Southern by my father when he was at school, 4 of those are so poor it's not worth trying to identify the location, but then there is this one which is at Redhill. (confirmed in my father's lists). It is a Wainright class F1, all well and good but I can find no mention of this particular loco in the two online lists I know of (BR database and Wiki). Is anyone able to solve this? Added to his notes, at a later date is ?34...which would definitely have been his last year (or partial year at Leatherhead). I wonder if the school club organised a formal visit to the shed (being the nearest) and this thought set me pondering about shed visits in the 1930s. By the 1950s they were commonplace, and I remember a few scrambled visits myself in the 1960's, but in the early days of trainspotting it must have been very different.View attachment 76018

That is an absolutely superb picture Arglwydd - can't answer your question but thanks for posting. If it's an SER loco would it have been staple haulage for the Redhill Tonbridge route or did they wander wider after the grouping?

Might still be interesting to see the poor quality pics you mention if you fancied posting them. They must have meant something to your dad after all, or presumably he would not have kept the prints.

I'm assuming Leatherhead school was a public school? - it may have been that in the 30s the pupils would very much have been seen as young gents by the railway and the local station master/shedmaster would have happily hosted a visit. IIRC the hobby was seen rather differently to 'spotting' for much of the history of the railway and thus might have been considered educational or even promotional in a different way to which it was perhaps regarded by say the 1950s. I am very much speculating here of course. Mind you didn't Ian Allan start off in the publicity dept at the SR where he realised that there were so many requests for lists of locos there was a market for the ABC book concept.

Bevan Price · 2 Apr 2020

From the RCTS History of South Eastern Railway Locos:-
35 built 11/1888 as Class F
Rebuilt 11/1905 as Class F1
Withdrawn 1/1934
Renumbering date to 1035 not given, but presumably circa 1930. Prior to that, it would probably have had prefix A (as A35) after formation of Southern Railway in 1923.

Only limited allocation data are shown:
1916: Ramsgate
1933: Redhill.

Arglwydd Golau · 2 Apr 2020

Bevan Price said:
From the RCTS History of South Eastern Railway Locos:-
35 built 11/1888 as Class F
Rebuilt 11/1905 as Class F1
Withdrawn 1/1934
Renumbering date to 1035 not given, but presumably circa 1930. Prior to that, it would probably have had prefix A (as A35) after formation of Southern Railway in 1923.

Only limited allocation data are shown:
1916: Ramsgate
1933: Redhill.

Ah, thanks! I had hoped that you might be able to come up with this information. Now if it was w/d in Jan 1934 it might be that the photo was taken the preceding year, as it doesn't look withdrawn and has a tender full of coal, and of course I have mentioned previously that there is no mention of Leatherhead in his notebooks after 1933.

WesternLancer said:
That is an absolutely superb picture Arglwydd - can't answer your question but thanks for posting. If it's an SER loco would it have been staple haulage for the Redhill Tonbridge route or did they wander wider after the grouping?

Might still be interesting to see the poor quality pics you mention if you fancied posting them. They must have meant something to your dad after all, or presumably he would not have kept the prints.

I'm assuming Leatherhead school was a public school? - it may have been that in the 30s the pupils would very much have been seen as young gents by the railway and the local station master/shedmaster would have happily hosted a visit. IIRC the hobby was seen rather differently to 'spotting' for much of the history of the railway and thus might have been considered educational or even promotional in a different way to which it was perhaps regarded by say the 1950s. I am very much speculating here of course. Mind you didn't Ian Allan start off in the publicity dept at the SR where he realised that there were so many requests for lists of locos there was a market for the ABC book concept.

Thanks, WesternLancer, still glad that you are finding this interesting. Yes, Leatherhead was a public school, my Grandparents were not well-off by any means, my Taid (Grandfather) was a clergyman and after the disestablishment of the Church in Wales in 1920 suffered a considerable loss of income, but Leatherhead, apparently, offered a deal (or scholarship) to sons of Welsh Clergy. I think that you may be correct that a 'group of young gentlemen' might well have been allowed to make an official visit to the shed

30907 · 2 Apr 2020

WesternLancer said:
If it's an SER loco would it have been staple haulage for the Redhill Tonbridge route or did they wander wider after the grouping?

I'm assuming Leatherhead school was a public school? - it may have been that in the 30s the pupils would very much have been seen as young gents by the railway and the local station master/shedmaster would have happily hosted a visit. IIRC the hobby was seen rather differently to 'spotting' for much of the history of the railway and thus might have been considered educational or even promotional in a different way to which it was perhaps regarded by say the 1950s.

Tonbridge-Redhill-Reading was SER so an obvious route for an elderly 4-4-0

I think you're right about the railway's attitude to public schoolboys generally - the SR routinely had its Schools named at a station local to the school (not sure they did E907 at West Dulwich!), and of course they might grow up to be influential...

In the case of St John's Leatherhead, IIRC it rather specialised in sons of clergy and missionaries, so that might account for a few railway vicars

Arglwydd Golau · 9 Apr 2020

Coming to the end of the photo's from Dad's Leatherhead days....even though I know the location of this one (Redhill, taken on the same day as the previous photo of the F1) it is interesting as the subject is now preserved at NRM York. Another Wainwright 4-4-0, class D, built in 1901 and so a little over halfway through her working life (withdrawn in 1956). I wonder whether she was a Redhill loco at this time. An almost rural scene, I wonder whether the large house (top left) is still in existence

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30907 · 10 Apr 2020

Arglwydd Golau said:
An almost rural scene, I wonder whether the large house (top left) is still in existence View attachment 76327 .

Googlemaps shows most of the area covered in housing; the location of the actual house though (as far as I can judge from https://maps.nls.uk/view/101725358) is now woodland, which is intriguing.

WesternLancer · 10 Apr 2020

30907 said:
Googlemaps shows most of the area covered in housing; the location of the actual house though (as far as I can judge from https://maps.nls.uk/view/101725358) is now woodland, which is intriguing.

I wonder if it is hidden in the trees? Where was that goods sidings compared with an existing landmark - eg present day station?

It's another great picture, complete with crew in shot! Nice to see.

Bevan Price · 10 Apr 2020

In 1931, 1737 was allocated to Tonbridge. That is the nearest to 1933 that I can find. It was likely to have been a regular visitor to Redhill on services from Tonbridge. (From RCTS History of SE&CR Locos.)

30907 · 10 Apr 2020

WesternLancer said:
I wonder if it is hidden in the trees? Where was that goods sidings compared with an existing landmark - eg present day station?

It's another great picture, complete with crew in shot! Nice to see.

The shed was in the V between the main and Tonbridge lines just south of the station; the house pretty much due South of the present Travelodge!

WesternLancer · 11 Apr 2020

30907 said:
The shed was in the V between the main and Tonbridge lines just south of the station; the house pretty much due South of the present Travelodge!

Thanks - I'll enjoy looking at the maps with that info. Just need someone who can do their daily lock down walk in the area now!

Arglwydd Golau · 12 Apr 2020

Trainspotters 1930's style! The Leatherhead School Railway Club (not sure of the correct title, I'm sure I have it somewhere but can't lay my hands on the information at the moment), probably taken in 1932 or early 1933 at the latest. My father is back row, extreme left. I recall that one of the other boys was the son of the Vicar of Criccieth and was called Arthur Cooke (the name came back to me in one of those 'out of the blue' moments a few evenings ago!)

pieguyrob · 14 Apr 2020

Is this now becoming the thread, whereby, if you have a picture and want it identifying this is the place to come?

Or, as mentioned up thread, should a new thread be started?

Either way, I have an interesting oil painting to pick your minds with.

pieguyrob · 14 Apr 2020

pieguyrob · 14 Apr 2020

This is an oil painting which shows a depot scene somewhere in Europe possibly Germany. Any ideas where? It is hand painted and old.
Which is is weird as both my maternal, and paternal grandfathers served in the royal artillary in Burma during WW2. So I don't know where this painting came from?

WesternLancer · 14 Apr 2020

pieguyrob said:
This is an oil painting which shows a depot scene somewhere in Europe possibly Germany. Any ideas where? It is hand painted and old.
Which is is weird as both my maternal, and paternal grandfathers served in the royal artillary in Burma during WW2. So I don't know where this painting came from?

Locos have the look of SNCF to me but I'm no expert....

edwin_m · 14 Apr 2020

I think that's the original SNCF logo on the smokebox door of the loco to the right. Also the track bottom centre looks like bullhead rail, which SNCF used although I think they put the keys on the insides of the chairs which aren't visible here.

Not sure what's on the gantry in the background. If it was signals it would help identify, but it doesn't look like any signal I've seen. I wonder if it's for delivering water to locos on several parallel tracks.

30907 · 14 Apr 2020

Clearly SNCF, with I think a Baldwin 141R in the foreground and a Pacific to its left, implying a passenger depot.

Terence Cuneo's signature is bottom right; I've found a couple of his from Boulogne online, so it could be there or Calais-Ville, Amiens or Lille are other possibilities not too far afield.

The gantry might be for sand. I visited both Calais and Boulogne sheds around 1970 and it doesn't ring a bell - but I was perhaps more interested in the locos?

John Webb · 14 Apr 2020

30907 said:
Clearly SNCF, with I think a Baldwin 141R in the foreground and a Pacific to its left, implying a passenger depot.

Terence Cuneo's signature is bottom right; I've found a couple of his from Boulogne online, so it could be there or Calais-Ville, Amiens or Lille are other possibilities not too far afield.

The gantry might be for sand. I visited both Calais and Boulogne sheds around 1970 and it doesn't ring a bell - but I was perhaps more interested in the locos?

My book "The Railway Paintings of Terence Cuneo" (Crescent Books, 1985, ISBN 0 904568 43 1) says this is at Boulogne, and is entitled "Sunset of an Era".

pieguyrob · 14 Apr 2020

Thank you for your help.

WesternLancer · 14 Apr 2020

Arglwydd Golau said:
Trainspotters 1930's style! The Leatherhead School Railway Club (not sure of the correct title, I'm sure I have it somewhere but can't lay my hands on the information at the moment), probably taken in 1932 or early 1933 at the latest. My father is back row, extreme left. I recall that one of the other boys was the son of the Vicar of Criccieth and was called Arthur Cooke (the name came back to me in one of those 'out of the blue' moments a few evenings ago!)
View attachment 76515

Nice to see this pic, faces of the club!
I wonder if the school have an archivist or old boys association magazine or some such - wonder if they would be interested in publishing the pic and 1 or 2 uploaded on the thread?

I assume it is this - suggests they have a magazine or some such

Old Johnians | St John's School Leatherhead

Welcome to the OJs - the friendly, active alumni group for all former pupils of St John's School, Leatherhead.

www.stjohnsleatherhead.co.uk

Help with identifying location!

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