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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

TheGrandWazoo

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I didnt mean it was along time ago just a few years ago, just remember seeing the 12 plate e400 when they were in and around Cornwall and wonder how we needed up getting them, and I've never really researched about the devon part of first till recently.

I was just a bit surprised that you didn't know about the Devon part of First.

The reason they arrived was probably of a combination of having expensive fleet in a loss making operation (Devon) and a need to have newer fleet for the U1/U2. Having got the new fleet at the end of 2016 and a load more arriving in early 2018 for other routes like the U4, 91-3 and 27, there wouldn't have been quite the requirement to retain them so Bristol got them.

First Kernow have done brilliantly to get as much fleet investment as they have. Now they're getting Geminis to replace the Tridents (at least in part depending on schools tender results) so there's not that much old tat. Guess the short Darts are perhaps the oldest (for use on the 47 when normality returns?) though it would be good if the M6 got some new fleet. However, given current circumstances and the potential future ramifications, new vehicle investment is moot point.
 
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Goldfish62

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First Kernow have done brilliantly to get as much fleet investment as they have. Now they're getting Geminis to replace the Tridents (at least in part depending on schools tender results) so there's not that much old tat. Guess the short Darts are perhaps the oldest (for use on the 47 when normality returns?) though it would be good if the M6 got some new fleet. However, given current circumstances and the potential future ramifications, new vehicle investment is moot point.
The M6 will need at least newer vehicles at some point. The current ones give the impression of always being about to give up completely.

As for the 47 etc, sadly I would't assume all the competitive commercial ventures will actually make an appearance once "normality" returns.
 

Lizard1324

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The M6 will need at least newer vehicles at some point. The current ones give the impression of always being about to give up completely.

As for the 47 etc, sadly I would't assume all the competitive commercial ventures will actually make an appearance once "normality" returns.
Could the m6 not use the short wheel base optare solo sr that are on the a17 today. Aa these will not have much purpose when the normal timetable restarts
https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=WK68BSY or "WK68 BSY"&sort=date-taken-desc
Or are these not short enough
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The M6 will need at least newer vehicles at some point. The current ones give the impression of always being about to give up completely.

As for the 47 etc, sadly I would't assume all the competitive commercial ventures will actually make an appearance once "normality" returns.

Can't disagree. Save for 53709, the others are now 14/15 years old, and the normality at the end of this might be a bit different.
 

Lizard1324

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Not short enough unfortunately. The 7.9m versions are the longest that will fit.
So will they have to buy a new optare solo when the mousehole ones come to the end of there life, looking at bus specs there is no bus that is smaller then 7.9 apart from the optare solo which the smallest one is 7870mm so only just smaller enough
 

TheGrandWazoo

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So will they have to buy a new optare solo when the mousehole ones come to the end of there life, looking at bus specs there is no bus that is smaller then 7.9 apart from the optare solo which the smallest one is 7870mm so only just smaller enough

The Mellor Strata is available on the Mercedes Sprinter 516 chassis - it's just under 7.8m long and seats 21 like the existing Solos - https://www.flickr.com/photos/weste...c-QWG4xk-TFs6Vb-2htoGZD-SSRqLo-2g2uX1M-QxrkCe

Of course, they could have something smaller like the Sprinters that OTS use on their TfC routes but they seat 17/18 (?) and are pretty cramped https://www.flickr.com/photos/skill...h2-2b3BeYQ-NonwC8-MpUtRB-owePtN-ouU4yr-obSA1u
 

Lizard1324

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The Mellor Strata is available on the Mercedes Sprinter 516 chassis - it's just under 7.8m long and seats 21 like the existing Solos - https://www.flickr.com/photos/weste...c-QWG4xk-TFs6Vb-2htoGZD-SSRqLo-2g2uX1M-QxrkCe

Of course, they could have something smaller like the Sprinters that OTS use on their TfC routes but they seat 17/18 (?) and are pretty cramped https://www.flickr.com/photos/skill...h2-2b3BeYQ-NonwC8-MpUtRB-owePtN-ouU4yr-obSA1u
So they have a choice of a mercedes sprinter convertion or a small optare solo but all of these will have to be purchased new or from other owners
 

richw

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Its in the plans to replace the M6 fleet. Optare have a 12 month order to delivery timeframe on the Solo. Other options were also being considered. No order as yet. First group announced a freeze on spend for corona so don’t expect them yet
 

Goldfish62

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The Mellor Strata is available on the Mercedes Sprinter 516 chassis - it's just under 7.8m long and seats 21 like the existing Solos - https://www.flickr.com/photos/weste...c-QWG4xk-TFs6Vb-2htoGZD-SSRqLo-2g2uX1M-QxrkCe

Of course, they could have something smaller like the Sprinters that OTS use on their TfC routes but they seat 17/18 (?) and are pretty cramped https://www.flickr.com/photos/skill...h2-2b3BeYQ-NonwC8-MpUtRB-owePtN-ouU4yr-obSA1u
The problem with the Sprinter option is the lack of standing capacity. The M6 often gets crush loaded!
 

83G/84D

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Anyone know what's been working the A17 today? The reason why I ask is all three Atlantic Coaster Solo's were at Camborne early evening. Presumably some other Solo's ?
 

MB162435

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Anyone know what's been working the A17 today? The reason why I ask is all three Atlantic Coaster Solo's were at Camborne early evening. Presumably some other Solo's ?
The mini SRs 53861, 53862, 53864 and 53865 were on the A17 today with 53860 on A1s, they seem to be based at Penzance now during the emergency timetable at least
 

83G/84D

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No worries, one of the only things keeping me occupied at the moment is looking at the trackers seeing what's still out and about!

Yes, I have looked too but not much running at the moment. I haven't been outside much in the last few days except for work, shopping and exercise and haven't seen much activity other than the remaining Tinner E400MMC's and TfC E200MMC's. Even the Gemini's from Bristol don't seem to be running, or any more coming down the M5.

No need for them with hardly anyone travelling.
 

richw

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Yes, I have looked too but not much running at the moment. I haven't been outside much in the last few days except for work, shopping and exercise and haven't seen much activity other than the remaining Tinner E400MMC's and TfC E200MMC's. Even the Gemini's from Bristol don't seem to be running, or any more coming down the M5.

No need for them with hardly anyone travelling.

If you all want some interesting stuff to watch on the trackers, watch st Austell and. Newquay TfC. It’s keeping us entertained on our breaks and layovers!
Zero compliance to the timetables. We saw one PCB on time departure today. That was the 0720 22 to Truro. Quite a few rogue agency drivers, come and go as they please it seems, we’ve seen early departures, late departures, mysterious departures, incorrect destinations displayed. We saw the introduction of the 21 st Austell to chaddlewood today by green flash!

back to First Kernow... Many more MMCs and drivers to Hinckley to assist in social distancing. Capacity on a decker working the hinckley services have been restricted to 25 passengers so a huge temporary fleet increase to provide adequate capacity
 

MB162435

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Yes, I have looked too but not much running at the moment. I haven't been outside much in the last few days except for work, shopping and exercise and haven't seen much activity other than the remaining Tinner E400MMC's and TfC E200MMC's. Even the Gemini's from Bristol don't seem to be running, or any more coming down the M5.

No need for them with hardly anyone travelling.
I've only been out once in two weeks, and have cancelled my mticket with Kernow until I know when I will be returning to work, sad looking at what Kernow and TfC are running knowing what both had planned, was planning to try out both new networks until things to a turn for the worse

Kernow only have the SRs, E200 and E400 MMCs going and TfC as you said the E200s and E200MMC’s

Hopefully we will get to see both companies running their full offerings eventually this year, but certainly not worth placing any bets on that happening yet
 

Goldfish62

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If you all want some interesting stuff to watch on the trackers, watch st Austell and. Newquay TfC. It’s keeping us entertained on our breaks and layovers!
Zero compliance to the timetables. We saw one PCB on time departure today. That was the 0720 22 to Truro. Quite a few rogue agency drivers, come and go as they please it seems, we’ve seen early departures, late departures, mysterious departures, incorrect destinations displayed. We saw the introduction of the 21 st Austell to chaddlewood today by green flash!

back to First Kernow... Many more MMCs and drivers to Hinckley to assist in social distancing. Capacity on a decker working the hinckley services have been restricted to 25 passengers so a huge temporary fleet increase to provide adequate capacity
Agency drivers always were going to be a major issue. By their nature they have zero company loyalty and many will try to get away with whatever they can.
 

83G/84D

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If you all want some interesting stuff to watch on the trackers, watch st Austell and. Newquay TfC. It’s keeping us entertained on our breaks and layovers!
Zero compliance to the timetables. We saw one PCB on time departure today. That was the 0720 22 to Truro. Quite a few rogue agency drivers, come and go as they please it seems, we’ve seen early departures, late departures, mysterious departures, incorrect destinations displayed. We saw the introduction of the 21 st Austell to chaddlewood today by green flash!

back to First Kernow... Many more MMCs and drivers to Hinckley to assist in social distancing. Capacity on a decker working the hinckley services have been restricted to 25 passengers so a huge temporary fleet increase to provide adequate capacity

If this is what TfC are like now what will it be like when a full timetable eventually resumes? I will have to watch the trackers carefully in west Cornwall in the coming week or so and see how it compares! Whilst out for a walk in Camborne a few days ago a TfC E200MMC shot over a roundabout without stopping and had no chance of giving way to the right if anything had been coming.
On the flip side one driver on the 39 today was looking very smart and seemed to be driving well in the short time I followed him.

Let's hope the issues you describe with TfC are ironed out sooner or later without need for the TC or anyone else needing to take action.
 

richw

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Let's hope the issues you describe with TfC are ironed out sooner or later without need for the TC or anyone else needing to take action

from what I’ve seen the issues are with some agency drivers. Identifiable by Jeans and hoodies!
The permanent employees seem to be doing ok, talking to a former colleague he said there was no supervisor overseeing many of the outstations/depots. Nobody there to greet drivers in the morning they just come in and grab their bus and get on with it. No hard copy of running boards, they are trying to use running boards as programmed on Ticketer... but I could have told them that won’t work, as Ticketer loses GPS in numerous locations and then doesn’t display next stop info to driver, just the next stop when still had GPS coming through on the screen.
The 21 at 3ish had no ticket machines working.

In the nicest possible way if they’d launched in normal circumstances in this manner we’d be seeing complete carnage!
 

83G/84D

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I've only been out once in two weeks, and have cancelled my mticket with Kernow until I know when I will be returning to work, sad looking at what Kernow and TfC are running knowing what both had planned, was planning to try out both new networks until things to a turn for the worse

Kernow only have the SRs, E200 and E400 MMCs going and TfC as you said the E200s and E200MMC’s

Hopefully we will get to see both companies running their full offerings eventually this year, but certainly not worth placing any bets on that happening yet

No-one could have predicted how bad things have turned out so far and the timing is unfortunate given the significant changes that were planned and have understandably been revised since. I guess we will never know some of First Kernow's 2020 vision as it will probably never materialise in the foreseeable future.
 

Lizard1324

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Agency drivers always were going to be a major issue. By their nature they have zero company loyalty and many will try to get away with whatever they can.
Well according to another group there has so far been 4 damaged buses on the first two days of there services starting, with one being involved in a hit and run, apparently.
 

83G/84D

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from what I’ve seen the issues are with some agency drivers. Identifiable by Jeans and hoodies!
The permanent employees seem to be doing ok, talking to a former colleague he said there was no supervisor overseeing many of the outstations/depots. Nobody there to greet drivers in the morning they just come in and grab their bus and get on with it. No hard copy of running boards, they are trying to use running boards as programmed on Ticketer... but I could have told them that won’t work, as Ticketer loses GPS in numerous locations and then doesn’t display next stop info to driver, just the next stop when still had GPS coming through on the screen.
The 21 at 3ish had no ticket machines working.

In the nicest possible way if they’d launched in normal circumstances in this manner we’d be seeing complete carnage!

I think some predicted it would not work out well given the short timescale required to set up the whole TfC operation. Still they could have tried harder to hit the ground running and at least get the basics right. Your last sentence sums things up perfectly.
 

MB162435

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No-one could have predicted how bad things have turned out so far and the timing is unfortunate given the significant changes that were planned and have understandably been revised since. I guess we will never know some of First Kernow's 2020 vision as it will probably never materialise in the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately not, safe to say the open tops will be having a very easy year, by the time things start to go back to normal it will likely be Autumn at the earliest
 

Lizard1324

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Unfortunately not, safe to say the open tops will be having a very easy year, by the time things start to go back to normal it will likely be Autumn at the earliest
Are they still going to buy newer open top buses from ensign or is that on hold too, was looking on there website and at the moment they are selling an ex london open top b9tl gemini 2 but they probally wont be buying new buses anytime soon.
 

Busaholic

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I think some predicted it would not work out well given the short timescale required to set up the whole TfC operation. Still they could have tried harder to hit the ground running and at least get the basics right. Your last sentence sums things up perfectly.
It was 'wing and a prayer' stuff at least six weeks ago, and four weeks ago with only a little foresight you could see it was going to be a bumpy start at the very least. Three weeks ago, no foresight required at all, so long as you removed the rose-tinted specs. It might have been too late then to ask FK to continue their winter timetable, but TfC could, and should imo, have announced they were 'pulling' the new operation for the time being and using GCB to supplement or replace the existing FK timetable where necessary. The public would have been quite understanding, certainly within a few days, as ordinary life started to unravel. But then we have to make allowances for politicians' egos, loss of face etc, and the inescapable fact that some of them are ill-equipped for the job, as we're seeing at a national level. At least Hancock et al have to face the music whereas here...?
 

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