• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Coronavirus: Future of airlines and airports

Status
Not open for further replies.

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
Also, have the RAF ever flown into London City? I am thinking the A400M in medivac set up - it’s very close to Excel Nightingale if London desperately had to share the patient load with elsewhere.....

There was videos going around on social media the other week of an RAF C-130 practising landing and taking off from London City for instance:

Watching the RAF practice landings at City Airport on it’s unusually steep descent is impressive when it’s an aircraft as big as a C130.

Link (includes video)

I would imagine one of the reasons to choose the Excel to become a field hospital is its proximity to London City airport which I think can handle any RAF transport aircraft currently in service.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,420
There was videos going around on social media the other week of an RAF C-130 practising landing and taking off from London City for instance:



Link (includes video)

I would imagine one of the reasons to choose the Excel to become a field hospital is its proximity to London City airport which I think can handle any RAF transport aircraft currently in service.
Thanks! Surprised it is a Hercules unless it’s just planning for moving material and staff round quickly, I thought it was the A400Ms that were set up for Medivac.
Surely they can’t get a Voyager into London City?!!
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
Surely they can’t get a Voyager into London City?!!

Hmm yes perhaps not the Voyagers but whilst you can shift people and cargo around in one I was more meaning the C-130, A400M and C-17s which I'm fairly certain can land and take off from London City.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,420
Hmm yes perhaps not the Voyagers but whilst you can shift people and cargo around in one I was more meaning the C-130, A400M and C-17s which I'm fairly certain can land and take off from London City.
C-17 was designed to go into significantly shorter runways than London City and presumably are frequently using even steeper approaches into lively areas....would definitely be a dramatic video as they are significantly larger than the biggest planes currently going in!! Might alarm the locals a bit....
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
C-17 was designed to go into significantly shorter runways than London City and presumably are frequently using even steeper approaches into lively areas....would definitely be a dramatic video as they are significantly larger than the biggest planes currently going in!! Might alarm the locals a bit....

It's a shame that it's in aid of such a terrible situation otherwise I'd be looking forward to seeing a video of a C-17 operating out of London City! Sadly if that starts to happen it probably means things have taken a turn for the worse.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,420
It's a shame that it's in aid of such a terrible situation otherwise I'd be looking forward to seeing a video of a C-17 operating out of London City! Sadly if that starts to happen it probably means things have taken a turn for the worse.

If they started doing that can you imagine the usual suspects spreading rumours of martial law?!
That Nightingale hospital is actually a cover for a 4,000 capacity barracks for the soldiers you know.....
 

RichJF

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2012
Messages
1,099
Location
Sussex
C-17, A400M, C-130 are designed to land on short runways such as City Airport when required. Having seen an A400M & C-130 stop almost dead on the runway at Farnborough I wouldn't be surprised to see them both fly from City Airport if needed.

The Voyager does not have STOL capability, its merely a converted A330 that serves as a tanker-transport aircraft.
 

Jozhua

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,856
Cargo bags are being deployed in passenger cabins so they can be filled with cargo and used for those flights.

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a320-cargo-bags/

Turning passenger planes into cargo haulers
The outbreak of coronavirus worldwide has led to airlines slashing flight schedules and grounding thousands of aircraft, as travel demand bottoms out and nations close borders in an attempt to control the pandemic. With no other way to earn revenue, airlines are increasingly turning to operating cargo-only flights as a means to generate a little income.

While passenger planes often carry a portion of cargo in the belly, simply filling the hold with cargo would not be enough to make these flights possible. As such, we’ve seen a number of airlines utilizing the passenger cabin to maximize the capacity for cargo.

Considering the drop in space on passenger planes to take cargo, plus the need to keep pilots/flight crew's hours up, this seems like a very sensible idea.

Perhaps some of the few existing passenger flights could go 50/50, with a small area/areas(social distancing and all...) of the cabin for remaining passengers, the rest filled with cargo. Bit like one of those combo 747's.

Also, I've had a look at Manchester airports departures, according to flightradar 24, they only saw three departures yesterday! (At least ones they tracked...)
 

Thomas31

On Moderation
Joined
18 Feb 2020
Messages
57
Location
Ruislip
When everything returns to normal will the airfares? What with conference calling and the such I think flying in the future will return to being a luxury, a once in a lifetime experience
 

dvboy

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
1,937
Location
Birmingham
A quick look at Birmingham Airport departures for Friday, there are four in total. Three to Dublin and one to Amsterdam.
There was an arrival from and departure to Bucharest this evening.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
When everything returns to normal will the airfares? What with conference calling and the such I think flying in the future will return to being a luxury, a once in a lifetime experience

Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?

Hands up - not me.

I think a poll may be in order.
 

Thomas31

On Moderation
Joined
18 Feb 2020
Messages
57
Location
Ruislip
Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?

Hands up - not me.

I think a poll may be in order.

What if a transatlantic flight costs two or three times more than it did before the pandemic? Because after this is over, there will be far less competition for business, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were was only one or two airlines flying between London and New York for a long time to come.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?

Hands up - not me.

I think a poll may be in order.

Me neither
Very tempted to book some easyJet flights for late summer...
 

westv

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2013
Messages
4,203
If I didn't fly how would those living overseas get a chance to meet me?
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
What if a transatlantic flight costs two or three times more than it did before the pandemic? Because after this is over, there will be far less competition for business, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were was only one or two airlines flying between London and New York for a long time to come.

The competition, if anything, will be greater. There will be fewer airlines - possibly - but there won’t be that many fewer aircraft. There will be lots of empty seats to sell, and you can expect cut throat competition to fill them from the off. If anything, with the oil price as it is, flights will be somewhat cheaper.
 

Thomas31

On Moderation
Joined
18 Feb 2020
Messages
57
Location
Ruislip
The competition, if anything, will be greater. There will be fewer airlines - possibly - but there won’t be that many fewer aircraft. There will be lots of empty seats to sell, and you can expect cut throat competition to fill them from the off. If anything, with the oil price as it is, flights will be somewhat cheaper.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope you’re right, I fly across the pond 3 or 4 times a year, but with the collapse of business travel I’m not convinced that air travel will be anything as cheap as it is (or was)
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
Perhaps some of the few existing passenger flights could go 50/50, with a small area/areas(social distancing and all...) of the cabin for remaining passengers, the rest filled with cargo. Bit like one of those combo 747's.
There would surely be issues such as maintaining access to emergency exits with that sort of setup. Weight distribution might be a worry too.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,420
Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?
When will you restart though? There will a long period after flying restarts when the risk of lockdowns and quarantine will be significant, and they will happen fast. Hopefully this will be mitigated by fast testing at airports etc, but a whiff of a mutated second wave and the borders will start closing.
Skiing is definitely ‘brave’ as it seems to have been a transmission hotbed!
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,669
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
There would surely be issues such as maintaining access to emergency exits with that sort of setup. Weight distribution might be a worry too.

It can be done, there are some airlines in the far North West of America & Canada that operate combo flights with varied passenger / cargo set-ups in the main cabin. And the band Iron Maiden managed to commission a customised 757 passenger / cargo configuration for a world tour a few years ago.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
It can be done, there are some airlines in the far North West of America & Canada that operate combo flights with varied passenger / cargo set-ups in the main cabin. And the band Iron Maiden managed to commission a customised 757 passenger / cargo configuration for a world tour a few years ago.

KLM had 747 Combis that were used in this way with a moving partition between freight and passengers.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
The competition, if anything, will be greater. There will be fewer airlines - possibly - but there won’t be that many fewer aircraft. There will be lots of empty seats to sell, and you can expect cut throat competition to fill them from the off. If anything, with the oil price as it is, flights will be somewhat cheaper.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope you’re right, I fly across the pond 3 or 4 times a year, but with the collapse of business travel I’m not convinced that air travel will be anything as cheap as it is (or was)

I'm not an expert, but I'd expect some sectors of Business flying to require much stronger justification post-Covid19. (i.e. if people coped with Global Skype meetings for several months, why do they need to fly with the same frequency). So airlines may lack the late-booking high-margin business travel that helps keep the starting yield prices low.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,420
It can be done, there are some airlines in the far North West of America & Canada that operate combo flights with varied passenger / cargo set-ups in the main cabin. And the band Iron Maiden managed to commission a customised 757 passenger / cargo configuration for a world tour a few years ago.

Two of the RAF BAe 146 planes are combi.
The squaddies chuck their Bergens into open crate/pallets which are then forklifted into the back whilst the soldiers sit at the front.
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,229
Location
Greater Manchester
KLM had 747 Combis that were used in this way with a moving partition between freight and passengers.
Combi aircraft are normally based on the freighter variant, with a large above deck cargo door. The seats are on removable pallets that can be slid along tracks on the deck like a freight container. It is not easy, quick or cheap to convert a passenger aircraft to a combi.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,830
I think newly built "proper" combi planes are now banned for safety reasons, hence you can't buy a combi version of a modern plane like an A350 or 787

Hence what airlines are doing at the moment is keeping the seating in place and putting the cargo on top of it. It's not as if what they're mainly shipping is heavy
 

Jozhua

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,856
Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?
.

Last year I did about 5 round trips on 12 total flights, done around 6 round trips in the past year. I'll probably fly once more this year, if things clear up. Possibly do one or two trips in 2021 if I'm lucky. So I guess a reduction of around 50-60%. I think I'll be a lot more cautious about it in general, especially until a COVID vaccine is available.

I think things might get up to around 80-90% of what they were pre-COVID once vaccines give the majority immunity. But I don't think we'll see growth on 2019 passenger numbers until mid-way through the decade. If not due to the concern, border closures and lockdowns, then the ensuing recession caused by all this!
 

westv

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2013
Messages
4,203
Hence what airlines are doing at the moment is keeping the seating in place and putting the cargo on top of it. It's not as if what they're mainly shipping is heavy
Reminds me of back in the 80s when BR used to load post baggage (or something like that) into empty passenger trains at London Bridge.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Even if it was fairly heavy, what's an airline seat designed to take in terms of the weight of a person? Must be well over 150kg. People are quite heavy in the scheme of things.
 

Chester1

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
3,972
Perhaps we should ask the forum.

How many people reading this are going to significantly reduce their flying when flights restart again?

Hands up - not me.

I think a poll may be in order.

Me neither
Very tempted to book some easyJet flights for late summer...

I’ve already booked my skiing flights for next year.

I would book stuff if I knew whether my two holidays for this year will be going ahead, because that determines whether I will or won't have enough time to take off work early next year. Easyjet's decision to make all fares exchangable shows that the market is already adapting. Its not a big deal to have to cancel a trip next year if you get credit with an airline that covers most of Europe. I already only booked hotels with free cancellation.

While Norwegian may go bankrupt because of the shock of this crisis, their business model shows that Trans Atlantic flights at cheap prices don't require large numbers of business travelers. I expect Virgin Atlantic's flights to Florida are not full of business travelers either!
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,120
What I'll be doing is leaving booking flights and hotels to the latest possible moment so I can be reasonably sure both will be safe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top