Football

DarloRich said:

I forgot I saw Romania v France at Euro 96. Romania had Hagi and France had Desailly, Blanc, Dechamps & Zidane. I would like to say it was a great game. It wasn't.

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Ah Hagi. I saw him at Wembley vs Notts in the Anglo Italian cup final. I've never seen anything like the speed of Giggs and Kanchelskis on the ball at Meadow Lane. We've fallen a long, long way since those days.

Overall I was going to say George Best. Fantastic player to watch in the late 60s but I wonder how he would fare in the present day. MK Dons, Luke Chadwick, Wimbledon FC - and another difficuly one as watched them in all leagues from Southern League to Premier League - but the one that I liked watching the most was Alan Cork. Could have said Fashanu but he was a bit brutal not only to othe opposition but also members of his own team sometimes.

DarloRich said:

Lets have a bit of fun and debate. Who is the bets player you have seen live? ( not on TV but in the flesh)

For me i think it would be Juninho. It was like a creature from Saturn landed in Middlebsrough, took up football and showed everyone else how to do it.

For Darlington I think it is either Marco Gabbiadini or Robbie Blake.

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Johan Cruyff without a shadow of a doubt. Villa v Barcelona in the 77/78 UEFA cup. Home in the first leg and he absolutely dominated the game. Scored a 20 yard effort to break the deadlock. Went off to a standing ovation with about 10-15 left and 2-0 up. Villa got it back to 2-2 in the final minutes.

DarloRich said:

Lets have a bit of fun and debate. Who is the bets player you have seen live? ( not on TV but in the flesh)

For me i think it would be Juninho. It was like a creature from Saturn landed in Middlebsrough, took up football and showed everyone else how to do it.

For Darlington I think it is either Marco Gabbiadini or Robbie Blake.

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I never really went to many top flight or international games, i always preferred lower league or even standing with the dog on a Sunday morning. I do remember one though, on one of our football club trips to see England v Argentina in May 1991. One young lad ran the midfield that day for them, his name was Diego Simeone.

Darandio said:

I never really went to many top flight or international games, i always preferred lower league or even standing with the dog on a Sunday morning. I do remember one though, on one of our football club trips to see England v Argentina in May 1991. One young lad ran the midfield that day for them, his name was Diego Simeone.

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Boo hiss!!!

The most gifted player I have seen in a Forest shirt (and I did see John Robertson) is Stanley Victor Collymore. Big, strong, fast, skilful, two footed and with a fearsome shot. The only thing he wasn’t great at was heading the ball. Sadly his mind was never quite in the right place for long enough. He had a good career but he could have been an all time great.

Minilad said:

Johan Cruyff without a shadow of a doubt. Villa v Barcelona in the 77/78 UEFA cup. Home in the first leg and he absolutely dominated the game. Scored a 20 yard effort to break the deadlock. Went off to a standing ovation with about 10-15 left and 2-0 up. Villa got it back to 2-2 in the final minutes.

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I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan, and I love my club but Johan Cruyff was the reason I fell in love with football. To me, it tells me a lot that my first memories of football was the 1971 European Cup Final between Ajax and Panathinaikos, initially probably because the game was at Wembley, and then the 2 subsequent European Cups that Ajax won, and the 1974 World Cup, because of Holland, and not anything Tottenham related.

The 1974 World Cup (I was 10 and a half), held in West Germany consummated my love affair with Cruyff. One game in particular stands out for me to this day: Wednesday 26th June (I had to look that bit up), but I remember the rest: Gelsenkirchen, Holland destroyed Argentina, scoring four without reply. I remember a mixture of torrential rain followed by sunshine (since confirmed by YouTube). Orange umbrellas pumping in unison as the Dutch scored and scored. Cruyff majestic, He was as tall, slim, elegant, cool as f*ck, pointing directions for others to follow like a Roman traffic policeman, always talking, telling, controlling. Simply magnificent. The heavy downpour clouds made way for brilliant sunshine for part of the game just so the Footballing Gods could take a peek. Interchanging of positions, strolling around the pitch as though they were the Germany on tour in Europe in 1939. Forget the fact West Germany technically won the trophy; morally the Dutch (i.e. Cruyff) were the winners in the eyes of the football world.

Pele and Maradona had greater populist global impact, I can't doubt that, and I have wondered why so. Initially I thought it may have been because the Brazil and Argentina football geniuses were from a 'non-first world' background, and non-caucasian too. I remember in the 1994 World Cup when Maradona was banned there were protests in Bangladesh with banners proclaiming 'Dhaka will burn if Maradona doesn't play'. Cruyff would not have received such support. However, maybe the non-first world argument is countered given the global popularity of Ronaldo and Messi, and where they are from (I know Messi is Argentinian but his association will always be Barcelona first, in my opinion). Of course, accessibility and social media have made it 'easier' to become a global icon. So, putting the first world/developing world argument away, I think, certainly with Pele and Maradona that because their appeal wasn't on an intellectual level, but just on playing, their influence at the time appealed to more people - it's a simple game after all.

Anyway, all the above notwithstanding, I do think Cruyff, under the tutelage of his mentor, Rinus Michaels, as one of the greatest intellectual innovators of modern football, who took intelligent football to another level with first his thinking and then fulfilment of that thinking. Guardiola summed up Cruyff's influence at Barcelona: "Johan Cruyff painted the chapel and Barcelona coaches merely restore or improve it".

Dundee have voted Yes to ending the season in Scotland early. See: https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/spor...gree-spfl-resolution-completing-season-early/

Last Friday, Dundee had originally voted no but the SFA and the SPFL (Scottish Professional Football League - the four senior leagues in Scotland) never received their vote. Dundee have vested interests as they are in favour of league reconstruction, which both the SPFL and the SFA have agreed to in principle in return for voting yes.

This would see Celtic, Dundee United, Raith Rovers, and Cove Rangers crowned champions of their respective divisions, with Hearts, Partick Thistle, and Stranraer relegated, even though before the shutdown due to the virus it was not mathematically impossible for other sides to win the division and for those relegated sides to escape from the drop. Furthermore, Brechin City (who are propping up the basement division) will not be relegated to the Junior Leagues at all.

Bearing in mind that the SFA is the same organisation that 1) initially refused to postpone a 1998 World Cup match on the same day as Diana Spencer's funeral when everyone else postponed theirs
2) Alongside with the former SPL, allowed Inverness Caledonian Thistle to be promoted to the top flight despite their Caledonian Stadium not having a minimum of 10,000 all seated stadium and having missed the March 31 deadline for ground sharing Pittodrie with Aberdeen back in 2004. This decision eventually relegated Partick Thistle after a vote.
3) Allowed Sunday evening kickoffs at 18:30, when public transport is reducing in frequency. The infamous "Shame Game" in 1999 (which was also a title decider between both Glasgow sides) soon put an end to that.
4) Turned a blind eye to the tax fraud that was committed by David Murray, which caused Glasgow Rangers to become defunct and go into liquidation. A friend of mine who ran a hospitality events company has still not been paid eight years on despite having signed correspondence from Murray, and when the liquidation process is eventually completed, he is going to attempt to get Murray in the dock (ideally the Old Bailey so as to be outwith Murray's comfort zone), get Murray stripped of his knighthood, and sent to jail.

A few points if I may.

adrock1976 said:

Last Friday, Dundee had originally voted no but the SFA and the SPFL (Scottish Professional Football League - the four senior leagues in Scotland) never received their vote. Dundee have vested interests as they are in favour of league reconstruction, which both the SPFL and the SFA have agreed to in principle in return for voting yes.

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This is nothing to do with the SFA.

adrock1976 said:

Furthermore, Brechin City (who are propping up the basement division) will not be relegated to the Junior Leagues at all.

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Brechin were never going to be send to any junior league. If the season had finished as normal then they would have played the winner of the Highland League/Lowland League play off and if they had lost they would have went to the Highland League.

adrock1976 said:

Bearing in mind that the SFA is the same organisation that 1) initially refused to postpone a 1998 World Cup match on the same day as Diana Spencer's funeral when everyone else postponed theirs

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The true story behind what actually happened. It isn't as simple as just saying "the game is off".

adrock1976 said:

2) Alongside with the former SPL, allowed Inverness Caledonian Thistle to be promoted to the top flight despite their Caledonian Stadium not having a minimum of 10,000 all seated stadium and having missed the March 31 deadline for ground sharing Pittodrie with Aberdeen back in 2004. This decision eventually relegated Partick Thistle after a vote.

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Nothing to do with the SFA.

adrock1976 said:

3) Allowed Sunday evening kickoffs at 18:30, when public transport is reducing in frequency. The infamous "Shame Game" in 1999 (which was also a title decider between both Glasgow sides) soon put an end to that.

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Nothing to do with the SFA, everything to do with Sky TV and the SPL.

adrock1976 said:

4) Turned a blind eye to the tax fraud that was committed by David Murray, which caused Glasgow Rangers to become defunct and go into liquidation. A friend of mine who ran a hospitality events company has still not been paid eight years on despite having signed correspondence from Murray, and when the liquidation process is eventually completed, he is going to attempt to get Murray in the dock (ideally the Old Bailey so as to be outwith Murray's comfort zone), get Murray stripped of his knighthood, and sent to jail.

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That one I'll wholeheartedly agree with you on.

Good news for Cove Rangers, who will now experience Division 1 level matches. They deserve their promotion for their performances in Division 2.

Chew Chew said:

Brechin were never going to be send to any junior league. If the season had finished as normal then they would have played the winner of the Highland League/Lowland League play off and if they had lost they would have went to the Highland League.

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Well done for clarifying that for everyone. Most people don’t seem to know the real structure of non-league football in Scotland - and it annoys me more than it should. Most people I seem to speak to think it’s just “the joonyurs”. When in reality junior football in Scotland is almost dead now. (As of next season - whenever that may be - the only junior teams will be a few from West Lothian and the North of Scotland) It’s not a bad thing though as teams joining the pyramid structure (away from the juniors) is better for them, and the Scottish game overall.

Rant over

adrock1976 said:

4) Turned a blind eye to the tax fraud that was committed by David Murray, which caused Glasgow Rangers to become defunct and go into liquidation. A friend of mine who ran a hospitality events company has still not been paid eight years on despite having signed correspondence from Murray, and when the liquidation process is eventually completed, he is going to attempt to get Murray in the dock (ideally the Old Bailey so as to be outwith Murray's comfort zone), get Murray stripped of his knighthood, and sent to jail.

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Chew Chew said:

That one I'll wholeheartedly agree with you on.

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he will fail utterly. he is an unsecured creditor so will get naff all.

Tomorrow is when the Premier League clubs hold their meeting to discuss a 30th June date for the completion of the current season.

scotrail158713 said:

Well done for clarifying that for everyone. Most people don’t seem to know the real structure of non-league football in Scotland - and it annoys me more than it should. Most people I seem to speak to think it’s just “the joonyurs”. When in reality junior football in Scotland is almost dead now. (As of next season - whenever that may be - the only junior teams will be a few from West Lothian and the North of Scotland) It’s not a bad thing though as teams joining the pyramid structure (away from the juniors) is better for them, and the Scottish game overall.

Rant over

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I get the bit about things that annoy you more than they should, when people still call it the SPL I can feel my rage levels rise.

The new WoS league is interesting, especially with it being on the same level as the EoS and SoS. You can quite quickly see WoS teams taking over the Lowland League and turning it into a Glasgow and Ayrshire league as opposed to the more eastern league it is just now.

It has been a sad demise for the junior game over the last few years but if sides wanted to progress it had to happen.

RIP 'Bite your legs' Norman. (From a PNE fan)

Decisions now appear to being made about the termination of the current football season in Europe, after the recent decision made in the Netherlands, with the top two French leagues now in such a position after a decree by the French President about starting times for French sports not to start until much later this year.

To me, the season needs to be completed. Even if that means it’s played behind closed doors.

Anything else would be massively controversial.

Iskra said:

To me, the season needs to be completed. Even if that means it’s played behind closed doors.

Anything else would be massively controversial.

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Well, considering the fate that has befallen most of the leagues in this country, is it not time finally to see football in a far less TV monied entity than those media and the like have brainwashed everyone into believing it to be "something akin to Godliness" that has to be worshipped eight or nine months every year.

As I well remember on a Boxing Day fixture many, many years ago between Oldham Athletic and Southport that Oldham won 11-0, the linesman near to where I was stood was being harangued by the Southport left-back when the tenth goal went in, responding in a voice that all near us could hear ... "Its only a game, grow up"

Xenophon PCDGS said:

Well, considering the fate that has befallen most of the leagues in this country, is it not time finally to see football in a far less TV monied entity than those media and the like have brainwashed everyone into believing it to be "something akin to Godliness" that has to be worshipped eight or nine months every year.

As I well remember on a Boxing Day fixture many, many years ago between Oldham Athletic and Southport that Oldham won 11-0, the linesman near to where I was stood was being harangued by the Southport left-back when the tenth goal went in, responding in a voice that all near us could hear ... "Its only a game, grow up"

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I think a lot of clubs are missing (and probably starting to appreciate more than ever) the direct, supporter-injected cashflow right now.

There are various, interesting rumours flying around now about how the season will end, does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Iskra said:

There are various, interesting rumours flying around now about how the season will end, does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

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From a Scottish perspective I find it quite amusing watching English football clinging to the hope of this season finishing. All football up here, apart from the Premiership, has been declared over. I can’t see any level of football returning for a good while.
To make up for lost income for clubs one fan set up Donate a Ticket where fans can donate the price of a match ticket to the club for a game they would’ve attended. It’s had a great response as, just like in England I’m sure, the lower the level of football the more match day income is appreciated at each club. (As of today £44,878 has been raised and 83 clubs have benefited)

Iskra said:

There are various, interesting rumours flying around now about how the season will end, does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

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I believe we'll drag it out a bit longer then go the same way as France and decide it on a points-per-game basis. Then the legal fun will start.

Darandio said:

I believe we'll drag it out a bit longer then go the same way as France and decide it on a points-per-game basis. Then the legal fun will start.

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There are suggestions that teams will be promoted, but not relegated. I assume there would be double relegation slots the season after to even it back out. I assume that would please everyone? I'm guessing that playoffs might be played behind closed doors or the highest team in the playoffs is just automatically promoted? It's certainly interesting.

Iskra said:

There are suggestions that teams will be promoted, but not relegated. I assume there would be double relegation slots the season after to even it back out. I assume that would please everyone? I'm guessing that playoffs might be played behind closed doors or the highest team in the playoffs is just automatically promoted? It's certainly interesting.

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Which means more games running up to the Euros next year. If they did go that way i'd expect to see at least one cup competition scrapped.

scotrail158713 said:

From a Scottish perspective I find it quite amusing watching English football clinging to the hope of this season finishing. All football up here, apart from the Premiership, has been declared over. I can’t see any level of football returning for a good while.
To make up for lost income for clubs one fan set up Donate a Ticket where fans can donate the price of a match ticket to the club for a game they would’ve attended. It’s had a great response as, just like in England I’m sure, the lower the level of football the more match day income is appreciated at each club. (As of today £44,878 has been raised and 83 clubs have benefited)

Donate a Ticket | The Football Fundraiser

A fundraising platform set up during the COVID-19 pandemic to raise money for football clubs in the UK & Ireland. Donate the value of a match ticket for each of the remaining games this season. We do not take any commission.

donateaticket.com

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It has been leaked down here now, that the season won't finish, whether it is true or not I don't know!

As a ST holder, I don't mind LUFC keeping the cost of the remaining games I will miss. I would like my money back from Blackburn for an away game though, they will be fuming though about having to refund 8000+ away fans at £40+ a ticket. To me it serves them right for being greedy and trying to milk our away support by putting the two teams with the best away support in their own special pricing band and then giving their own fans a special offer price for the same game.

If there are to be no relegations then there can be no promotions without a right old mess ensuing. It couldn't all be just so Liverpool can win the top flight could it?

VauxhallandI said:

If there are to be no relegations then there can be no promotions without a right old mess ensuing. It couldn't all be just so Liverpool can win the top flight could it?

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They would just even it out with extra relegations the season after.

That would seem the least controversial way forward.

Iskra said:

They would just even it out with extra relegations the season after.

That would seem the least controversial way forward.

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That’s what’s been agreed in non-league football up here (the senior leagues are considering a reconstruction for next season). It’s definitely the fairest way to do it in my opinion.

VauxhallandI said:

If there are to be no relegations then there can be no promotions without a right old mess ensuing. It couldn't all be just so Liverpool can win the top flight could it?

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It would be a travesty if they weren't. If it was anyone but Liverpool that were so far in front after such a good season then fans around the country would be clamouring for them to be awarded it.

Darandio said:

It would be a travesty if they weren't. If it was anyone but Liverpool that were so far in front after such a good season then fans around the country would be clamouring for them to be awarded it.

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I don't think it's the top end that's proving problematic, it's the clubs at the bottom that are doing the squabbling, there is a lot of self-interest going on.

The start of next season will almost certainly be delayed until at least September, so squeezing an extra six rounds of games (or 4 if only those in automatic positions are promoted) into a curtailed season will be a struggle.

Not too keen on the idea of 5 relegation spots the following season either.