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Coronavirus.

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greyman42

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Could be lots of things. I suspect the most likely given peoples' behaviour so far is the removal of the exercise option, i.e. you are only allowed out to purchase food or for medical reasons. It would also be possible to close down more businesses, potentially only leaving pharmacies and supermarkets.
Why would the government want to remove the exercise option? Where I live it is not causing any problems whatsoever.
 
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Bayum

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Why would the government want to remove the exercise option? Where I live it is not causing any problems whatsoever.
Have you seen what’s been going on over the last few days? Cyclists doing there ‘daily’ exercise of 20 mile bike rides, Brighton Beach and parks in London yesterday overrun with so many people that social distancing wasn’t an option. Sometimes in life, the minority of people do really spoil it for the majority.
 

Meerkat

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Why would the government want to remove the exercise option? Where I live it is not causing any problems whatsoever.
Because of a rabid media with telephoto lenses, backed up by raging social media busybodies!
 

farleigh

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Have you seen what’s been going on over the last few days? Cyclists doing there ‘daily’ exercise of 20 mile bike rides, Brighton Beach and parks in London yesterday overrun with so many people that social distancing wasn’t an option. Sometimes in life, the minority of people do really spoil it for the majority.
How can a 20 mile bike ride be of any risk? How does that spoil anything?
 

Bayum

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How can a 20 mile bike ride be of any risk? How does that spoil anything?
When you see them cycling within a metre of each other, stopping off on benches where they’re 6 to a bench, they’re not practising social distancing. They’re going for a jolly because they can. Do they do 20 mile rides every single day as part of their exercise routine? Doubtful.
 

farleigh

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When you see them cycling within a metre of each other, stopping off on benches where they’re 6 to a bench, they’re not practising social distancing. They’re going for a jolly because they can. Do they do 20 mile rides every single day as part of their exercise routine? Doubtful.
That is different. I was asking the harm of a 20 mile solo ride. I did 30 miles today and there were loads of people cycling. However, I did not see anybody cycling in groups of more than 2 or sitting down in groups. Where did you see these 6 to a bench cyclists?
 

Goldfish62

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Because of a rabid media with telephoto lenses, backed up by raging social media busybodies!
Yes, spot on. I've been raging about this all weekend. There are been a number of fake claims that some places are "packed" when in fact they're deserted.
 

DarloRich

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Do they? it's impossible to read any article at the moment without a quote from an 'expert', and they very often disagree about the interpretation of statistics etc. and a particular course of action. I don't like the manner in which the word is used today.

So are you suggesting the heads of bodies like Public Health England, The NHS, The Chief Nurse and the Chief Scientific officer ( or their deputies) are not experts?
 

404250

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Maybe not their daily routine, but have you considered they may be from the same household? Could be a large family or group of young workers who share a house? In that case they can be as close as they like and are doing nothing wrong.
 

trainophile

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I was wondering about those stories we used to hear of groups of Eastern Europeans coming over here and sharing a 2-bed terrace between a dozen of them, "hot bedding" while the others were at work. Don't know if that still goes on, but could lead to some interesting living arrangements if they are all laid off work.
 

The Ham

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I disagree. It is the only tool for holding the government to account. It has got better this week with more questions and "come back". It also allows us to hear from experts who actually know what they are talking about

Indeed, Newscast highlighted the other day that (IIRC) Thursday was the first time that anyone asking questions was allowed to ask follow up questions. As such there was the impression (at least on here) that the press were in the pocket of the government, when they were having to ask the key questions which they knew people wanted asking but weren't able to asking the follow up (and therefore more challenging) questions.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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So are you suggesting the heads of bodies like Public Health England, The NHS, The Chief Nurse and the Chief Scientific officer ( or their deputies) are not experts?

Not necessarily, but they are rather generic in their scope and rely on others with more expertise in a specific area to provide them with the information. The CNO that I was accountable to certainly wasn't an expert in my branch of Nursing. I just find that the word 'expert' is overused at the moment.
 

yorkie

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Have you seen what’s been going on over the last few days? Cyclists doing there ‘daily’ exercise of 20 mile bike rides.....
I've just done a 20 mile bike ride today, as I am entitled to do. Are you making an allegation that I have done something wrong?
Yes, spot on. I've been raging about this all weekend. There are been a number of fake claims that some places are "packed" when in fact they're deserted.
Yes indeed this has happened, some people have an agenda, which is to get places shut down and/or get additional restrictions imposed.
When you see them cycling within a metre of each other, stopping off on benches where they’re 6 to a bench, they’re not practising social distancing. They’re going for a jolly because they can. Do they do 20 mile rides every single day as part of their exercise routine? Doubtful.
I saw loads people out walking and cycling today, everyone being sensible and no evidence of what you claim whatsoever.

I don't do a 20 mile every single day but while I can't play football, I'm going to have to go on long walks or cycle rides to keep myself reasonably fit and healthy. I refer you to this post.

The best way to fight this virus is to be healthy, fit, active, and in good mental health. If people are prevented in doing these things, then what for the vast majority of people should only result in mild symptoms risks having a much more detrimental effect. The only times I am affected by viruses are when I am not able to do be in a good state of mind and exercise.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Given that there is usually weeks from contracting the virus until a death, and that there can be long delays before deaths are reported and appear in the figures, I believe we must already be well past the peak of cases. Once the hospitals show they have spare capacity again the lockdown has to be lifted, at least for under 70s with no health issues. I would hope this is by May. People seem to enjoy spouting worst case scenarios with 6 months of lockdown etc. The lockdown is just to flatten the curve, not stop the spread completely.

Yes, and I see it as a method of making the load on the NHS bearable. It is not to actually directly prevent deaths although that is a by product of a less stressed healthcare system. I reckon the measure is the number of hospital admissions.

I've just done a 20 mile bike ride today, as I am entitled to do. Are you making an allegation that I have done something wrong?
......

A daily bike ride of less than 20 miles would not really be much exercise :smile:. Mind you if you were doing that in London I would think you were mad - although not much traffic+pollution to take risks with currently :lol:.
 
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yorkie

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Yes, and I see it as a method of making the load on the NHS bearable. It is not to actually directly prevent deaths although that is a by product of a less stressed healthcare system. I reckon the measure is the number of hospital admissions.
Yes this is true. The other side of the coin is that we may get more people in a worse off position to fight it if they are under stress, have poor mental health or are not as physically fit as a result of the restrictions, so a balance needs to be struck.

I have a Great Auntie in her mid 90s who has Coronavirus in London and she is apparently doing well and actually looks set to survive, which shows just what an incredible job the NHS is able to do at the moment.
 

Peter Sarf

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Yes this is true. The other side of the coin is that we may get more people in a worse off position to fight it if they are under stress, have poor mental health or are not as physically fit as a result of the restrictions, so a balance needs to be struck.

I have a Great Auntie in her mid 90s who has Coronavirus in London and she is apparently doing well and actually looks set to survive, which shows just what an incredible job the NHS is able to do at the moment.

Its a difficult call. How to balance the pros and cons. I dearly hope we are overreacting to the threat from COVID-19 but I think that is sadly unlikely.

Thnks for reminding us. Let us not forget the successes the NHS are having. It is not all about the deaths it is more importantly about the number needing help and the number that benefit from that help. And let us remember to give the NHS and staff the space to do their wonderful work.
 

Peter Sarf

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I strongly believe C19 was active in the UK in December and January 2020, long before officially known. My family and neighbours and friends experienced illnesses similar to C19 symptoms during this period and I attended two funerals in first two months of this year, someone I spoke to had attended four. .......

I don't think so. Winter is a time when many bugs are going through the population anyway. That is why Funeral directors and Crematoria etc are so busy during that time. What could be interesting is to compare the number of deaths each week this winter to what has happened in previous winters and Spring. Either to see a COVID-19 influence or to see that more or less the same number of weekly deaths was occurring in previous years anyeway. BUT what is a definite is the fact that the NHS is getting overloaded with a lot more seriously ill people currently and that did not seem to be the case back in January and February.

.......
FWIW shops already close Easter Sunday anyway (one of only two days a year, the other being Christmas day). It wouldn't be an entirely massive step to close all businesses for all four days - food shops and pharmacies too, only hospitals open for those needing emergency treatment and literally nothing else. A full lockdown for those four days - everyone at home unless you're a doctor or nurse, basically, with special transport arrangements for them and no general public transport at all, would be quite easy to do with limited damage to business and might have quite an effect.

I would be tempted to go the other way and keep the shops open all four days. We do not want to force four days of shoppers into the adjacent days. That would make social distancing in the queues and shops harder. If it was announced in advance it might well cause people to rush out and purchase extra amounts of groceries etc again. Buying food is fairly essential.

Also anything to get people away from grouping up in parks etc.

Plus I am crossing all fingers and toes that we will be entering the plateau stage by then or soon after.
 

Mogster

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One of the Hong Kong newspapers reporting they’ve seen official Chinese doucuments saying tracebacks have identified confirmed cases in mid November. 266 cases identified in 2019.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....nas-first-confirmed-covid-19-case-traced-back

Coronavirus: China’s first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17
  • Government records suggest first person infected with new disease may have been a Hubei resident aged 55, but ‘patient zero’ has yet to be confirmed
 

ainsworth74

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Boris Johnson being admitted to hospital warrants it's own thread so please see here for more discussion.
 

eastdyke

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I don't think so. Winter is a time when many bugs are going through the population anyway. That is why Funeral directors and Crematoria etc are so busy during that time. What could be interesting is to compare the number of deaths each week this winter to what has happened in previous winters and Spring. Either to see a COVID-19 influence or to see that more or less the same number of weekly deaths was occurring in previous years anyeway. BUT what is a definite is the fact that the NHS is getting overloaded with a lot more seriously ill people currently and that did not seem to be the case back in January and February.

I would be tempted to go the other way and keep the shops open all four days. We do not want to force four days of shoppers into the adjacent days. That would make social distancing in the queues and shops harder. If it was announced in advance it might well cause people to rush out and purchase extra amounts of groceries etc again. Buying food is fairly essential.

Also anything to get people away from grouping up in parks etc.

Plus I am crossing all fingers and toes that we will be entering the plateau stage by then or soon after.
The ONS datasets that you may find 'interesting' are published here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
Note that they are for England and Wales only (other sets are published for Scotland and NI). The datasets are in xlxs spreadsheet form.
They are provisional for the current year, updated every Tuesday, 11 days in arrears.
I am awaiting the next release to make observations, the significant numbers of deaths with Covid-19 will be reflected more in Tuesday's figures.
The current year dataset also compares each week with an average of the deaths occurring in the equivalent weeks for the previous 5 years.

As to the bank 'holiday' weekend, I would not want to see the current shopping patterns disrupted by wholesale Supermarket closures and I would expect that the Supermarkets themselves would not want that either.
 

farleigh

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The ONS datasets that you may find 'interesting' are published here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
Note that they are for England and Wales only (other sets are published for Scotland and NI). The datasets are in xlxs spreadsheet form.
They are provisional for the current year, updated every Tuesday, 11 days in arrears.
I am awaiting the next release to make observations, the significant numbers of deaths with Covid-19 will be reflected more in Tuesday's figures.
The current year dataset also compares each week with an average of the deaths occurring in the equivalent weeks for the previous 5 years.

As to the bank 'holiday' weekend, I would not want to see the current shopping patterns disrupted by wholesale Supermarket closures and I would expect that the Supermarkets themselves would not want that either.
That is a fascinating.

Thanks for posting eastdyke
176.gif
 

DarloRich

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Calderwood rightly resigns.

No real choice. A solid professional lost due to a stupid mistake at a dangerous time.

BBC said:
Scotland's chief medical officer has resigned after apologising for visiting her second home during the coronavirus lockdown.

Dr Catherine Calderwood said she was "deeply sorry" and resigned "with a heavy heart".

She said she agreed with First Minister Nicola Sturgeon that the "justifiable focus" on her behaviour risked distracting from the pandemic response.
.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171
 

Mogster

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The ONS datasets that you may find 'interesting' are published here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
Note that they are for England and Wales only (other sets are published for Scotland and NI). The datasets are in xlxs spreadsheet form.
They are provisional for the current year, updated every Tuesday, 11 days in arrears.
I am awaiting the next release to make observations, the significant numbers of deaths with Covid-19 will be reflected more in Tuesday's figures.
The current year dataset also compares each week with an average of the deaths occurring in the equivalent weeks for the previous 5 years.

As to the bank 'holiday' weekend, I would not want to see the current shopping patterns disrupted by wholesale Supermarket closures and I would expect that the Supermarkets themselves would not want that either.

Jeez, it feels like we’ve been in this situation for months already. Then you look back at the stats and it’s barely 3 weeks...
 

JonathanH

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Jimini

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As to the bank 'holiday' weekend, I would not want to see the current shopping patterns disrupted by wholesale Supermarket closures and I would expect that the Supermarkets themselves would not want that either.

Agreed; however it's part of the Sunday Trading Act of 1994 that dictates that shops over 280 square metres can only open for six hours on Sundays and bank holidays, and also that they must close on Easter Sunday. Hopefully this can be revisited ahead of next weekend!
 

PG

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Agreed; however it's part of the Sunday Trading Act of 1994 that dictates that shops over 280 square metres can only open for six hours on Sundays and bank holidays, and also that they must close on Easter Sunday. Hopefully this can be revisited ahead of next weekend!
Schedule 1 of the act has this definition which therefore could possibly be used if shops decided to restrict their floor area from tomorrow to under 280 square metres in order to open on Easter Sunday.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/20/schedule/1
“relevant floor area”, in relation to a shop, means the internal floor area of so much of the shop as consists of or is comprised in a building, but excluding any part of the shop which, throughout the week ending with the Sunday in question, is used neither for the serving of customers in connection with the sale of goods nor for the display of goods,
 
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