A National Government for the Coronavirus crisis and its aftermath?

Now that Sir Keir Starmer has been elected as leader of the Labour Party, and bearing in mind his former position as Director of Public Prosecutions, is it not time to consider a National Government as previously happened during the two World Wars plus during the Great Depression of the early 1930s?

There are many good arguments both for and against the proposition, but I intend to advance some reasons for at least considering it, without saying I've come to any firm conclusions myself though I'm minded to welcome it if it's set up in roughly the right way from the start. These ideas are entirely my own, and I don't expect anyone on here to agree with them all, though I daresay some, if not many, will disagree with all of them, but I'm old and ugly enough to take it on the chin!

First, I think it's vital to bring Starmer into this government at a very high level: whether, like Atlee before him, as official Deputy Prime Minister I wouldn't want to see as a potential dealbreaker, but imo it'd be sending the right signal to do so. I've no doubt, though, that Starmer's expertise would be seen to best effect as Home Secretary. The old idea of the Four Great Offices of State as being Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary, possibly in that order, needs to be revised with equal weight to all, other than P.M., and another vitally important person added for the duration, the Health Secretary.

Starmer should be asked which other Labour MPs (and possibly others) he felt could add some weight to the challenging times ahead, not necessarily as front-line ministers. Other political parties (and none) should also be encompassed in a small way, perhaps slightly larger for the Scot Nats if they'd play ball: Ian Blackford, for a start and perhaps Joanna Cherry.

Now, to the most contentious bit. I feel very strongly that Starmer should make three main conditions for agreeing to both him and the Labour Party being brought into the fold.
1) The party political name blaming and shaming must finish for the duration. This government really does have to be 'we're all in it together' and political ideology has to take a back seat. Plenty of time for that later!
2) In connection with the above, Starmer should insist that the unelected Dominic Cummings must play a much less influential role in the new set-up, possibly confining his influence to the P.M. alone.
3) Boris Johnson must agree NOW to concede the principle that the Brexit transition period cannot in all probability be concluded on 31st December without adding yet more unnecessary potential woes.

This all at a time when the normal democratic standards are effectively suspended, for who knows for how long?

I'll leave it there for the moment, but will respond and add as necessary.

I'd be in support of a Government of National Unity, yes. I would have supported one for Brexit, too.

Then, now Keir is in place, another General Election once it's all over

Bletchleyite said:

Then, now Keir is in place, another General Election once it's all over

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(The video is the infamous interview where a woman complains about “another one”, when asked about the 2017 General Election)

Bletchleyite said:

Then, now Keir is in place, another General Election once it's all over

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I presume the smiley face is an indication that you're not holding your breath?

JohnB57 said:

I presume the smiley face is an indication that you're not holding your breath?

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Indeed not

Busaholic said:

is it not time to consider a National Government as previously happened during the two World Wars

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No, it is not a war.

The Covid crisis is as it is because of the failures of Boris Johnson and his henchman Cummings. It is right and proper that they are held to account for their failures, which have killed people.

Now is not the time for aimless mud-slinging, I quite agree, but only the other day Robert Peston proved Gove was lying about the lack of testing kits. It's no good to sweep it under the carpet of "we're in this together".

And as the husband of an NHS worker who hadn't had a real-terms pay rise for many years due to BoJo & Chums, Boris Johnson "clapping for our carers" made me feel sick.

Tetchytyke said:

No, it is not a war.

The Covid crisis is as it is because of the failures of Boris Johnson and his henchman Cummings. It is right and proper that they are held to account for their failures, which have killed people.

Now is not the time for aimless mud-slinging, I quite agree, but only the other day Robert Peston proved Gove was lying about the lack of testing kits. It's no good to sweep it under the carpet of "we're in this together".

And as the husband of an NHS worker who hadn't had a real-terms pay rise for many years due to BoJo & Chums, Boris Johnson "clapping for our carers" made me feel sick.

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I don't fundamentally disagree with anything you say. I'm not particularly in favour of comparing it to a war either, not least because of Johnson's fantasy that he's a new Churchill, forgetting perhaps that Churchill was in large part responsible for the carnage that was Gallipoli in the Great War. However, given that the virus's consequences will have a profound effect on the whole world for years, if not decades, ahead economically it does bear comparison in that regard. Also, there was the instance between the Wars that I mentioned of a National Government f course, that is now widely regarded as a failure, particularly for the Labour party. This time, if it happened, I believe it could cause lasting harm to the Conservative party, for which I for one would not be unhappy, any more than I suspect you'd be.

One of the main reasons I have for my proposal is that I see great trouble ahead, and maybe not just in the big cities, of keeping 'order' should the existing restrictions continue for many more weeks or even, as Hancock is suggesting, they are tightened further. Pritti Patel, as Home Secretary, could be almost guaranteed to mishandle the situation and exacerbate it. A spell of hot, sunny weather, which could happen within a month, would test everything, although it might help to decrease the impact of the virus on the vulnerable. Starmer as Home Secretary could work closely with Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, to ensure no over-reaction on the authorities' part i.e. the police.

Something I didn't originally post in order to test the water first was that another given is that Hancock has to be replaced long before the end of the month when we all know that, however you do the maths and allow for the variables, the number of tests made per day will only be a fraction of what he's promised. Much as I'd like to see Hancock squirm, it can't be allowed if there's a chance that more tests get conducted and possible lives saved.

It's possible to work across party lines without having to form a National Government

Domh245 said:

It's possible to work across party lines without having to form a National Government

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It is, but it rarely happens.

Busaholic said:

It is, but it rarely happens.

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We’re rarely in a situation like this though

Busaholic said:

I don't fundamentally disagree with anything you say. I'm not particularly in favour of comparing it to a war either, not least because of Johnson's fantasy that he's a new Churchill, forgetting perhaps that Churchill was in large part responsible for the carnage that was Gallipoli in the Great War.

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There are plenty that haven't forgiven him for Tonypandy either!

I see cabin fever has reached sunny Cornwall. There's quite a few weeks of lockdown still to go. I may have to go and buy more popcorn.

It is probably worth reflecting on the fact that significantly more people did not vote for the BoJo circus than did (56% v 44%) and that in three of the four countries of the UK the Tories did not top the poll.

scotrail158713 said:

We’re rarely in a situation like this though

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Indeed. It reflects badly on any opposition politician being deliberately obstructive or disruptive in these times - by all means once we've come out the other side then they can double down on the criticism but for now they can assist as requested/required without having to form any sort of National Government.

Tetchytyke said:

No, it is not a war.

The Covid crisis is as it is because of the failures of Boris Johnson and his henchman Cummings. It is right and proper that they are held to account for their failures, which have killed people.

Now is not the time for aimless mud-slinging, I quite agree, but only the other day Robert Peston proved Gove was lying about the lack of testing kits. It's no good to sweep it under the carpet of "we're in this together".

And as the husband of an NHS worker who hadn't had a real-terms pay rise for many years due to BoJo & Chums, Boris Johnson "clapping for our carers" made me feel sick.

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Bravo! I couldn't agree more. Instead of clapping for carers (and why didn't we clap for them before?) we should be asking what the hell have our government done for the NHS in the last decade? The virus is not their fault, but the lack of capacity and funding is. And let's not forget that this is the government that just a few months ago was flirting with US administration amongst rumours of the same wanting the NHS being bought up by their medical companies.

Bantamzen said:

And let's not forget that this is the government that just a few months ago was flirting with US administration amongst rumours of the same wanting the NHS being bought up by their medical companies.

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They still are. Private hospitals are doing *very* well out of the crisis. Not to mention BoJo slipping through multi-million ventilator deals to his backers- JCB and Dyson- rather than to existing ventilator manufacturers.

Just watch what these greasy toads will slip through whilst nobody is watching.

Djgr said:

It is probably worth reflecting on the fact that significantly more people did not vote for the BoJo circus than did (56% v 44%) and that in three of the four countries of the UK the Tories did not top the poll.

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It could be said that the Northern Ireland family of the Tories topped the poll there, though. Those family members who call in the middle of the night to ask ''mum,dad, could you send over a billion asap to help us keep the show on the road?'' A refusal often offends, and can lead to threats of self-harm!

Sir Keir Starmer could become acting P.M. quicker than we think.

Tetchytyke said:

They still are. Private hospitals are doing *very* well out of the crisis. Not to mention BoJo slipping through multi-million ventilator deals to his backers- JCB and Dyson- rather than to existing ventilator manufacturers.

Just watch what these greasy toads will slip through whilst nobody is watching.

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It's the Brexit ferry scandal all over again!

It is right and proper that the government should be held accountable for their acts and omissions, as part of the checks and balances of a democracy.

In the short term, the focus must be on getting the job done and dealing with the immediate (this to include opposing the government's policy, but on practical aspects relevant to the immediate point in question, rather than on overall ideology). Longer term, once this is all over - and assuming that there will be some form of review afterwards - the points which affected the response must be considered and the ideological austerity must form part of this.

I have read articles suggesting that a 'government of national unity' would be preferable to the Tories since it would allow them to deflect any criticism (or, at least, some of it) of their handling, since they would not have been alone.

A further note. Some have referred to this as the biggest Thing to happen since WWII. After that massive upheaval, the predecessor to the EU began to form out of a realisation that things work better when everybody is pulling in the same direction and that we can work together whilst celebrating our differences.

Tetchytyke said:

No, it is not a war.

The Covid crisis is as it is because of the failures of Boris Johnson and his henchman Cummings. It is right and proper that they are held to account for their failures, which have killed people.

Now is not the time for aimless mud-slinging, I quite agree, but only the other day Robert Peston proved Gove was lying about the lack of testing kits. It's no good to sweep it under the carpet of "we're in this together".

And as the husband of an NHS worker who hadn't had a real-terms pay rise for many years due to BoJo & Chums, Boris Johnson "clapping for our carers" made me feel sick.

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Said whilst slinging mud aimlessly.

farleigh said:

Said whilst slinging mud aimlessly.

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My thoughts too.

There must, and I mean must, be a full enquiry once this is over. But until then, mud-slinging is not appropriate. Of course, evidence based challenge of the Government's position is most welcome, and they've said so too.

farleigh said:

Said whilst slinging mud aimlessly.

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I'd say that @Tetchytyke is slinging mud with precise accuracy, unless anyone thinks that the government has done a sterling job over the years with the NHS? And let's not forget that a "communication error" lead to this country not joining with the EU scheme to procure ventilators.

farleigh said:

Said whilst slinging mud aimlessly.

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Said no doubt disagreeing with your political views.

dgl said:

It's the Brexit ferry scandal all over again!

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It is, and they're getting away with it because "Dyson are helping the NHS!" rather than "Dyson are making millions by selling things they don't make and don't know how to make to the NHS".

Bletchleyite said:

There must, and I mean must, be a full enquiry once this is over. But until then, mud-slinging is not appropriate.

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Enquiries are there to shine darkness on a subject. Always have been.

I'm not going to throw mud about the Government's covid policy until the dust settles. But everything else is fair game.

It is a serious point I make. My partner is not a nurse, she works in mental health as a psychologist, and has not had a real-terms pay rise for ten years, which is partly why we moved here. But her colleagues across are still there, still without a pay rise that meets inflation, and are now being expected to work as emergency HCAs, putting themselves at risk. They are doing so gladly.

But not two years ago Johnson was whooping and hollering with delight in the Commons when the Tories defeated a bill that would give nurses a
long-overdue pay rise. Nurses in London are still having to use food banks because they are paid so badly.

And now "clap for the NHS?" Really?

Now is PRECISELY the right time to point out just how shabbily NHS staff have been treated by this government, and just how much this government have delighted in screwing over NHS staff. Because now is the time to get them to stop it and start treating NHS staff properly.

I hope that if there's one thing to come out of this, it'll be that people see just how badly this government have treated people. People will now see the value of NHS staff, especially those who came from abroad to work here. And the unemployed middle-class will suddenly see for themselves just how nasty our benefits system is, and suddenly realise that it's never been "workers versus shirkers".

Bantamzen said:

I'd say that @Tetchytyke is slinging mud with precise accuracy, unless anyone thinks that the government has done a sterling job over the years with the NHS? And let's not forget that a "communication error" lead to this country not joining with the EU scheme to procure ventilators.

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Cock-ups are so common that you could almost buy that monumental one, except for the persistently nagging suspicion, nay certainty, that Cummings would have vetoed any attempt at joining the scheme. A way has to be found of removing this guy's tentacles from the levers of power. My main reason for supporting a National Govt, if I were to which I'm by no means sure of, would be to get rid of the Cummingsvirus, which would have to be a pre-condition of any other political party joining in government.

Busaholic said:

It could be said that the Northern Ireland family of the Tories topped the poll there, though. Those family members who call in the middle of the night to ask ''mum,dad, could you send over a billion asap to help us keep the show on the road?'' A refusal often offends, and can lead to threats of self-harm!

Sir Keir Starmer could become acting P.M. quicker than we think.

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Whilst true, they still only polled 31% of the vote in the North of Ireland.

Other parties, especially Labour, will not want to be tarred with the same brush as the Conservatives. Anyone who feels the Conservatives have been ineffective in some ways will be more willing to vote for a party who was not part of any "national" government. Labour and other parties know this, hence their tacit support and constructive opposition but still not joining any national government.

I’m sure the last thing Labour would want is to be in power now with the upcoming economic situation. JC must be having a reoccurring nightmare that he won the last election then wakes up and breaks into a big grin...

No particular fan of Boris (the UK testing provision in particular is a mass of confusion and the Covid outbreaks in care homes have been badly managed) but it’s becoming evident that the differences in infection rates and case fatalaties across Europe extend beyond national borders and the differences are larger than can be covered by the “they did the right things” reasoning.

Higher case fatality rates >10% are in S and W Europe, Italy, Spain, France, Belgium UK as are more cases. Much Lower case numbers and case fatalities <5% are found in Eastern Europe, East Germany, Czechia, Poland, Denmark. Even within Germany the SW states Bavaria and Baden have far more cases than the Eastern states even though they were testing way more and locked down first. Germany also have a much lower median case age of around 45 while in W and S Europe it’s much higher.

So what are we looking at? Differences in reporting, population density, geography, family demographics, genetics, diet even??? It’s massively complex and we have little idea what’s going on.