Get Carter opening train scenes

Ashley Hill · 5 Apr 2020

Taunton said:
Surprising that by 1970 a major station like Newcastle still had a NER Tangerine running in board, 6 years after the corporate image came in.

Many stations carried pre corporate signage into the 80s and later. Goxhill had its totems until 1988 becoming the last station to carry them. Several Scottish stations had them into the 80s. Paignton had its brown running in board into the 2000s and has Lowestoft still got its big blue sign on its wall?

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swt_passenger · 5 Apr 2020

Ashley Hill said:
Many stations carried pre corporate signage into the 80s and later. Goxhill had its totems until 1988 becoming the last station to carry them. Several Scottish stations had them into the 80s. Paignton had its brown running in board into the 2000s and has Lowestoft still got its big blue sign on its wall?

This example was an internally illuminated sign as well, I doubt they were in any rush to change them.

Cowley · 5 Apr 2020

Ashley Hill said:
Many stations carried pre corporate signage into the 80s and later. Goxhill had its totems until 1988 becoming the last station to carry them. Several Scottish stations had them into the 80s. Paignton had its brown running in board into the 2000s and has Lowestoft still got its big blue sign on its wall?

There was a recent thread on it here @Ashley Hill.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-last-stations-to-have-early-br-or-older-signage.177532/

It was from just before you joined I think.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

randyrippley said:
I was aged about 14 when I first saw it and thought the link was obvious

Amazing. The guy is in view for 5 seconds in the compartment! what was it that alerted you?,the way he was smoking the cig or what!
You were only 14 aswell! Well done.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

High Dyke said:
I'd disagree about the bridge. It's South Parade, Grantham (Br.239). The brick built bridge was replaced in 1972 by the current structure. The train is approaching Grantham South on the Down Fast.

I am refering to the bridge at 2:37 that's Donacster the first one with a bit of sun could well be Grantham.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

AY1975 said:
The coach in which he travels looks like a Mark 2A (or maybe 2B or 2C) Corridor First or Brake First, and the restaurant car is obviously a Mark 1 (probably a Restaurant Buffet). I would guess that it was filmed only a few months before the first Mark 2D air-conditioned coaches entered service on the East Coast Main Line.

You can see the train journey scene at

I would guess that in those days it would have taken about 4 hours. What happens in films doesn't necessarily reflect what would happen in that kind of situation in real life, though.

It's not a restaurant buffet it's a restaurant with a kitchin and pantry only no buffet.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

WesternLancer said:
So is that superb display of semaphore signals Grantham?

Doncaster.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

70014IronDuke said:
From what I remember reading, the film was v low budget. They just filmed the actors going up on the train - and not wanting the palava of signing/paying extras, used the killer in that role as he was in the group. One was not supposed to notice that. (I certainly didn't until it was pointed out somewhere.) REmember, this was long before youtube and even videos - most people only saw a film once and that was it. There was no going back to watch the beginning again.

That's how I see it as well. It was an internet revelation as I said. I had never met one person prior to the internet in the preceding 30 yrs that had concluded that the same person who killed Carter was in the compartment.

High Dyke · 5 Apr 2020

falcon said:
I am refering to the bridge at 2:37 that's Donacster the first one with a bit of sun could well be Grantham.

Ah, got ya. Is it the one on the approach to Belmont Yard at Doncaster. Not the large steel lattice bridge where the GN/GE goes off (Bessacarr Jn), but the one just after where the Low Ellers curve is? I'm sure the design fits. That would make the signals on the approach to Doncaster.

falcon · 5 Apr 2020

High Dyke said:
Agreed.

The two-track tunnel sections, about @1'07" onwards are Welwyn South & Welwyn North tunnels.

Overbridge @1'40" - Biggleswade?

Overbridge @2'02" - Approaching Grantham, to the left is a brake van in the Down Sidings whilst to the right is the Aveling-Barford factory.

Overbridge @2'06" - Belton Lane, Great Gonerby and Peascliffe Tunnel.

No, but judging by the fact that the train arrives in Newcastle during darkness are they on the approach to either York or Darlington?

It's Doncaster. The sun never gets far enough round to shine from the north at York or Darlington.
The filming was between July and September that puts the sun spot on for an evening journey arrival at Doncaster. The sidings are Black Carr on the left can be seen the water tower.

The water tower can be seen from the oposite deriction in this picture 1977. The train Carter is on is travelling in the same direction as the class 47.

Serathor · 5 Apr 2020

falcon said:
It's Doncaster.
The water tower can be seen from the oposite deriction in this picture 1977. The train Carter is on is travelling in the same direction as the class 47.
View attachment 76173

Yes, again you learn something new every day. Here is the watertower

swt_passenger · 6 Apr 2020

70014IronDuke said:
From what I remember reading, the film was v low budget. They just filmed the actors going up on the train - and not wanting the palava of signing/paying extras, used the killer in that role as he was in the group. One was not supposed to notice that. (I certainly didn't until it was pointed out somewhere.) REmember, this was long before youtube and even videos - most people only saw a film once and that was it. There was no going back to watch the beginning again.

I was in two minds about this, but then I found the supposed script on the fan website here:
https://www.getcarter.xyz/the-film/script/
... and when describing the relevant scene (22a on page 5 of 85) it includes “Camera Pans R across people sitting to “J” and girl”, which suggests it may well be intentional.
It also includes another reference to “J” in the later scene back in the compartment (42a on page 8)...

falcon · 6 Apr 2020

swt_passenger said:
I was in two minds about this, but then I found the supposed script on the fan website here:
https://www.getcarter.xyz/the-film/script/
... and when describing the relevant scene (22a on page 5 of 85) it includes “Camera Pans R across people sitting to “J” and girl”, which suggests it may well be intentional.
It also includes another reference to “J” in the later scene back in the compartment (42a on page 8)...

Great find. Well done.

The "J" on the ring is not shown in the compartment scenes. God knows how anyone was supposed to conclude at the end his killer was in the compartment!

I was going to get the book and see if there was any mention of it in there. Library is shut.

C J Snarzell · 6 Apr 2020

I believe the final scenes on the beach were shot early on in film because Ian Hendry's alcoholism was quite bad during the shooting.

I would assume then that the train scenes were filmed after the climax so the actor playing the gunman was known to the production crew to be the one that kills Carter at the film's conclusion.

The theory about the gunman already being dispatched from London to take Carter out in Newcastle is ambiguous because he gets his order from Kinnear and NOT the Fletchers.

If the Fletchers had already taken out their insurance on Carter (not least because of his affair with Britt Ekland) there wouldn't have been any sense in them sending henchmen Con & Peter to 'bring' Carter back to London.

CJ

randyrippley · 6 Apr 2020

C J Snarzell said:
I believe the final scenes on the beach were shot early on in film because Ian Hendry's alcoholism was quite bad during the shooting.

I would assume then that the train scenes were filmed after the climax so the actor playing the gunman was known to the production crew to be the one that kills Carter at the film's conclusion.
te
The theory about the gunman already being dispatched from London to take Carter out in Newcastle is ambiguous because he gets his order from Kinnear and NOT the Fletchers.

If the Fletchers had already taken out their insurance on Carter (not least because of his affair with Britt Ekland) there wouldn't have been any sense in them sending henchmen Con & Peter to 'bring' Carter back to London.

CJ

But Kinnear and the Fletchers had some kind of unspecified business arrangement, and both were worried that Carter would poison the deal in some way, so they worked together to eliminate him. The gunman was sent as insurance in case Con & Peter failed, taking his final instruction to proceed from Kinnear. Con & Peter were to try and extract Carter, failing which he was to be killed.
The implicit understory during the film is that Carter wasn't aware of the extent of the Fletchers involvement in the Newcastle crime scene - presumably he wasn't trusted due to his local history. I always interpreted the plot to imply the Newcastle gang were making underage porn films for the Fletchers to sell in Soho

randyrippley · 6 Apr 2020

falcon said:
Great find. Well done.

The "J" on the ring is not shown in the compartment scenes. God knows how anyone was supposed to conclude at the end his killer was in the compartment!

I was going to get the book and see if there was any mention of it in there. Library is shut.

It was on some early versions of the film - I wonder if it was lost when the opening scenes were redubbed for the Americans?

AY1975 · 7 Apr 2020

70014IronDuke said:
BREL Derby Litchurch Lane was definitely churning out Mk 2Ds when the film was shot - one a working day was the scheduled production. I started there in Dec 1990, when this was shot. But I don't know where they were going at the time.

I presume you mean Dec 1970?

70014IronDuke · 5 May 2020

AY1975 said:
I presume you mean Dec 1970?

Oh gosh, yes, of course. My grey matter must be looking like the underside of a MkI SK after ten years of service.

70014IronDuke · 5 May 2020

swt_passenger said:
I was in two minds about this, but then I found the supposed script on the fan website here:
https://www.getcarter.xyz/the-film/script/
... and when describing the relevant scene (22a on page 5 of 85) it includes “Camera Pans R across people sitting to “J” and girl”, which suggests it may well be intentional.
It also includes another reference to “J” in the later scene back in the compartment (42a on page 8)...

OK, intriguing, I agree.
But I suspect about as many people in the audiences noticed that as boarded trains at Woodford Halse on a snowy Sunday in January 1963.

Busaholic · 5 May 2020

70014IronDuke said:
From what I remember reading, the film was v low budget. They just filmed the actors going up on the train - and not wanting the palava of signing/paying extras, used the killer in that role as he was in the group. One was not supposed to notice that. (I certainly didn't until it was pointed out somewhere.) REmember, this was long before youtube and even videos - most people only saw a film once and that was it. There was no going back to watch the beginning again.

Alfred Hitchcock always made a fleeting appearance in his own films.

When I moved from London to West Cornwall in 1988 I came across dozens of people who claimed to have been used as extras in the controversial 'Straw Dogs' mostly filmed at nearby St Buryan. As the film had been effectively banned in most areas, including Cornwall, and no video of it was available, there was no way of checking this. Then, twenty years ago or so, a DVD of it came out and I watched the dance scene closely (the only one which featured any extras) and replayed it endlessly looking for anyone I might recognise: I know people's appearance changes over the years, but I failed to recognise a single person, and some who claimed to be in it were very (what shall I say?) individual looking.

Bald Rick · 12 May 2020

For those wanting some 1970s ECML nostalgia, Get Carter is on itv4 at 2100 tonight.

delt1c · 12 May 2020

Get Carter is a major Gangster movie, it pushes the boundaries at the time. The opening sciences are mega nostalgic for those of us who remover the ECML at that time. Can recommend this movie to all. The remake was no match

C J Snarzell · 13 May 2020

The Get Carter remark was dire to say the least - it should never have been made. Sty Stallone is not a patch on Michael Caine. Having it in the States too was a no-no - they did it with Straw Dogs which was just as bad.

I do think they could have perhaps done a sequel or spin off to GC which centred on the Fletcher brothers and their criminal enterprise, their relationship with the police which no doubt involved lots of corruption.

CJ

Get Carter opening train scenes

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