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Union of South Africa -- future doings?

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Calthrop

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If there is already a current thread touching on this topic, my apologies -- attempted searching, suggested not. I'm "out of the loop" on the subject, and asking from a position of considerable ignorance, whether anyone has any info as follows.

I understand that 60009 Union of South Africa will be working specials on 22 Feb. and 7th. March. Expected, from late April, at the behest of its owner Mr. Cameron, not to run again -- essentially, ever: seen as being permanently preserved static at this gentleman's establishment. Owner has supposedly announced at some stage, that the loco will work one final special in Scotland, shortly before being thus permanently retired. I would be most grateful for any further information on this potential event, from anyone who has any which they would be willing to share.
 
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BigB

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Of course there is no "owner's establishment" where it can be exhibited - planning permission was refused and he has no facilities where this can happen.
His other loco, The Great Marquis, is on display in the Museum at the Scottish Railway Preservation Society at Bo'ness.
Now, if they were mine, and I wanted people to see them after their life on the main line has ended, funding the building of a John Cameron building/extension at Bo'ness where planning permission was almost guaranteed and the footfall is far greater, would seem a logical choice. I may also have a caveat that if they wanted to get either running again they could - on the proviso that ALL funding was available up front - do so.
Having the funds available and ring fenced is key to this, as it reduces the likelihood of projects starting and falling by the wayside if fund raising stalls or another priority comes up. It also relies on a very thorough and detailed scope of work, not just a quick look over and some guess work, so that "surprises" do not appear during a rebuild that require considerable work busting the original estimate and budget. I know that things do appear when you take engines apart, but due diligence is required. Many projects start because people want them to, and sometimes they go too far to stop before big issues come to light that could have been identified if a full inspection was carried out - including NDT and internal camera work. Slightly off topic I know, but important to note as a lot of people would like to see one or both engines running in future if at all possible.
 
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Edders23

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Two years ago it was being quoted that the loco was about to be retired but yet it is still running

I suspect what is really going on is a few commercial tactics to generate income from the loco it has been the "last chance" to see or ride behind the loco for over 2 years now and will still be the case up until the boiler certificate actually expires
 

50039

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Two years ago it was being quoted that the loco was about to be retired but yet it is still running

I suspect what is really going on is a few commercial tactics to generate income from the loco it has been the "last chance" to see or ride behind the loco for over 2 years now and will still be the case up until the boiler certificate actually expires

Points well made... when does the boiler cert. expire - does anyone know?
 

Calthrop

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Thanks to all responders to my OP. To tell the truth, it was made at the request of a friend of mine, who is interested and hopeful re witnessing 60009's doings in its envisaged last couple of months active; but who does not "do" message boards. The "final special in Scotland" question comes from a recent number of Steam Railway; and was -- so my friend has subsequently found -- a "reprise" of something declared by Mr. Cameron in 2016: calling into question, its continuing applicability four years later !

Of course there is no "owner's establishment" where it can be exhibited - planning permission was refused and he has no facilities where this can happen.

Just on this issue -- interesting though the rest of the post is -- I wonder whether a slight misunderstanding has come about? With the "owner's establishment" thing, I was paraphrasing my friend's words to me, in which he referenced John Cameron's farm in Fife; and the scenario, which has often been aired, of Mr. C. finally keeping the loco there, static, to have it close by him in his declining years. I should maybe have used the word "preserved" less loosely -- it could imply, particularly, "on show to the public". Does the owner of a locomotive -- even a large one -- need planning permission to keep it on his own property, purely for his own private enjoyment? (No sarcasm meant -- I know very little about these matters.) This is the first implication I've heard, that the man won't be able to have his loco on his farm -- but this is not stuff which I closely follow; and as said, perhaps misunderstanding has been at work.

Mid April this year

I've seen -- including from my help-requesting friend -- 22nd April this year, cited.
(I hear -- second-hand -- that in the very latest Steam Railway [the number after that referred to above], discussing the 60009 saga, boiler certificate expiry date has been quoted as 22nd April 2022 ! One would presume that that is a careless error, not picked up pre-publication.)
 

alexl92

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Just on this issue -- interesting though the rest of the post is -- I wonder whether a slight misunderstanding has come about? With the "owner's establishment" thing, I was paraphrasing my friend's words to me, in which he referenced John Cameron's farm in Fife; and the scenario, which has often been aired, of Mr. C. finally keeping the loco there, static, to have it close by him in his declining years. I should maybe have used the word "preserved" less loosely -- it could imply, particularly, "on show to the public". Does the owner of a locomotive -- even a large one -- need planning permission to keep it on his own property, purely for his own private enjoyment? (No sarcasm meant -- I know very little about these matters.) This is the first implication I've heard, that the man won't be able to have his loco on his farm -- but this is not stuff which I closely follow; and as said, perhaps misunderstanding has been at work.

Mr Cameron’s plan was to build a museum and wider tourist attraction on his farm in Fife; the museum would house both of his locomotives. Part of the reason for this is that he didn’t believe he could get another safety certificate as the locomotive’s operator due to his age or something like that. However, and others will be able to expand, planning permission for these developments on his farm has been repeatedly refused.
 

Calthrop

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@alexl92: thanks. I -- and presumably, my abovementioned friend -- apparently had no idea of this. Seeming cliffhanger: where can 60009, shortly, go?
 

Calthrop

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(I hear -- second-hand -- that in the very latest Steam Railway [the number after that referred to above], discussing the 60009 saga, boiler certificate expiry date has been quoted as 22nd April 2022 ! One would presume that that is a careless error, not picked up pre-publication.)

Re this point: have just learned from my friend, that the error was in fact his -- caused by hasty reading of not-very-clear data in this absolutely-latest SR, and an element of "seeing what he would like to see". In fact, 22nd April this year is, for certain, what was meant.
 

silverfoxcc

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If i understand it correctly Mr Cameron has been granted planning permission for a farming museum ,but the local council have refused, several times i think. to allow the loco 'add-on'
I am not sure if the Lochty Private Railway is on his property, but if it is then could he put it back there ( are the buildings still in situ? can any local readers advise?)
Bugger about the misprint, but i thought it was this year as well.
As long as i am on the last run, i will be happy!!
But if i had a choice and the money i would love to see 3442 on the main again
 

silverfoxcc

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I think the boiler cert runs out at the end of April. If all mainline runs are off until the middle of May then the other week was her last run

where to next?

Towed to SRPS where 61994 is, waiting decisions on the museum. or if the boiler is still ok for heritage line work... how long for????? then off to the NYMR as it is near York, or the ELR the other way

Whatever, happens hang on to your memories until No7 comes back on line
 
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D365

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I suspect what is really going on is a few commercial tactics to generate income from the loco it has been the "last chance" to see or ride behind the loco for over 2 years now and will still be the case up until the boiler certificate actually expires

The railway equivalent of Elton John's farewell tour?
 

alexl92

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According to RailAdvent it will be spending the next year at the ELR once the lockdown is over.
Yeah, they've come to an agreement for it to see out its boiler ticket at the ELR. It won't be available for visits to other lines or anything else.
 

alexl92

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No, it's currently stored at York until restrictions can be eased enough for it to be moved. Whether it goes by road or rail, a support team is required and normally they'd use the support coach for overnight accommodation - they can't do that under current social distancing guidelines.
 

Rhinojerry

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No, it's currently stored at York until restrictions can be eased enough for it to be moved. Whether it goes by road or rail, a support team is required and normally they'd use the support coach for overnight accommodation - they can't do that under current social distancing guidelines.
alexl92..thank you.A friend had something pass his home last week in the dark.
He thought it was number 9.Thanks again
 

alexl92

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alexl92..thank you.A friend had something pass his home last week in the dark.
He thought it was number 9.Thanks again

It is absolutely possible that it's been moved since I last heard but I follow a lot of railway media and journalists online and haven't seen anything mentioned (it's the kind of thing that doesn't necessarily get a news story but often gets mentioned in a tweet).I could well be totally wrong!
 

Steamie Boxes

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60009 is still at York, and the most likely event is that it will move by road. The reason it didn't go before now is that the ELR wouldn't accept it.
 

crazyhorse1876

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That’s what you call a proper steam engine, thanks for posting the picture
Yes I agree,back in my youth I saw a lot of her and along with Kingfisher they were my favourites.Back the late 50's-early sixties I lived 5 minutes from St Margarets loco sheds(64A) which I used to frequent at that time also the A3 Papyrus 60096(ex steam record holder 108mph) was in attendance.As we grew towards 64/65 there were a few A4's/A1/A3 engines popping in and out but by then a lot of them were in a disgraceful condition,sad really.
 
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