Cross-London transfers

doubletrackemble · 21 Jun 2010

If you have a ticket for a journey that involves going into one London Network Rail station and leaving via another London NR station, does your ticket always include the cost of underground transfer within zone 1. Would you be OK leaving the underground at a tube-only station as long as you were still within zone 1? Presumably the barriers will prevent you re-entering the tube system with the original ticket once you have left it?

RailUK Forums

mathmo · 21 Jun 2010

Your ticket should include the transfer if you need it - it will almost always be marked with a + or a dagger symbol. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html says you can do exactly what you suggest with regards to breaking your journey. The one time I accidentally tried it, the barriers refused to let me back in with my ticket (though it was only about two minutes after leaving those same barriers in the first place).

yorkie · 21 Jun 2010

This has been brought up a few times on here previously. The barriers should let you out but will not let you back in. I've not read or heard anything to suggest that is no longer the case, so I assume it still is...

A60K · 21 Jun 2010

yorkie said:
This has been brought up a few times on here previously. The barriers should let you out but will not let you back in. I've not read or heard anything to suggest that is no longer the case, so I assume it still is...

I think that is still the case, yes. AIUI each ticket as issued has a simple flag in the magnetic strip that tells the LU barrier at one of the designated interchange stations (and I think possibly at any Zone 1 station) that it is valid for entry, and as soon as it is used the flag is removed. This may have changed since the spec was explained to me if the encoding has got more sophisticated, but I don't think it has.

ert47 · 21 Jun 2010

A60K said:
I think that is still the case, yes. AIUI each ticket as issued has a simple flag in the magnetic strip that tells the LU barrier at one of the designated interchange stations (and I think possibly at any Zone 1 station) that it is valid for entry, and as soon as it is used the flag is removed. This may have changed since the spec was explained to me if the encoding has got more sophisticated, but I don't think it has.

The ticket I have to buy to get to university and back only works on LU gates at London Bridge/London Victoria/Kings Cross St. Pancras and then at Lincoln NR.

However it always fails at Norwood Junction/London Victoria/London Bridge/St Pancras International National Rail Stations.

I always have to talk to the gateline guards there =/

doubletrackemble · 22 Jun 2010

Thanks for responses. On a related note, if you want your final destination in London to be a tube station then presumably you should buy a tkt straight through from origin to the tube station, but for flexibility, can you instead buy a tkt from origin to 'London Zone 2' or whatever zone you want?

clagmonster · 22 Jun 2010

To the best of my knowledge, in most cases you can't buy tickets to named Underground stations, butto Underground zones as you describe. Your ticket must cover all zones on which you travel on the Underground, so for example with a Hitchin-Zone U2* Londn ticket, you must interchange onto the system at Highbury or Finsbury Park, as your ticket is not valid in zone 1. With a ticket to Zone U12* Londn ticket you would be able to interchange at Moorgate or Kings Cross,

doubletrackemble · 22 Jun 2010

I am trying to buy a ticket from Swindon to London Zone 2 (but wishing to travel in Zone 1 first as well). Whilst this destination option is quoted on NFM 05 (as Zone U12* Londn) it does not appear to be listed on the 3 on-line booking sites that I've tried (Cross Country, First GW and Arriva Wales). They just have London Zone 1 and London Zone 2 so further to Clagmonster's post above, a 'Zone 2' tkt would not be valid for travel in Zone 1? The National Rail site doesn't seem to be listing underground zones at all, unless I'm just not searching correctly.

Greenback · 22 Jun 2010

On East Coast London Zone U12* comes up from the drop down list once you type London Z, but I don;t think this is a multi jounrey ticket. If you want to make a journey into zone 1, and then another one out to zone 2, I don't think this is the ticket you need!

CompactDstrxion · 22 Jun 2010

doubletrackemble said:
I am trying to buy a ticket from Swindon to London Zone 2 (but wishing to travel in Zone 1 first as well). Whilst this destination option is quoted on NFM 05 (as Zone U12* Londn) it does not appear to be listed on the 3 on-line booking sites that I've tried (Cross Country, First GW and Arriva Wales). They just have London Zone 1 and London Zone 2 so further to Clagmonster's post above, a 'Zone 2' tkt would not be valid for travel in Zone 1? The National Rail site doesn't seem to be listing underground zones at all, unless I'm just not searching correctly.

Zone U12* Londn includes Zone 1. It stands for Zones 1 and 2. The Zone 2-only would be Zone U2*. I don't think you can buy these tickets online.

EDIT: You can indeed seem to book them on East Coast.

doubletrackemble · 22 Jun 2010

Just to clarify, I want to make one tube journey from Paddington to Zone 2 (thus travelling through Zone 1 - but I do not want to get out in Zone 1).

I have gone to the East Coast site and put in 'London Zones 1-2' but it is coming up as No available fares. Anyone else able to get any further?

Greenback · 22 Jun 2010

Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, I've got a range of fares up on East Coast for Swansea - London Zone U12* and Swindon to London Zone U12*

Maybe there's a problem with the date or something?

John @ home · 22 Jun 2010

"Swindon" to "Zone 12* Londn" works for me on the East Coast site. You can use the short-cuts SWI to 0790.

clagmonster · 22 Jun 2010

If you enter Swindon-London Zones 1-2, you will get know results as that is the destination for zone 1-2 travelcards. Instead, enter Swindon-Zone U12* Londn, which should give you the relevent fares.

doubletrackemble · 27 Jun 2010

If you buy a ticket from outside London to 'London Terminals' is any kind of tube transfer allowed with that, or is it that once you arrive at a London Terminal then the ticket is not valid for further travel?

north · 27 Jun 2010

doubletrackemble said:
If you buy a ticket from outside London to 'London Terminals' is any kind of tube transfer allowed with that, or is it that once you arrive at a London Terminal then the ticket is not valid for further travel?

Not normally but sometimes. For example a ticket on the ECML valid into Kings Cross is additionally valid to use the underground to Moorgate.

It is not the norm.

wintonian · 28 Jun 2010

north said:
Not normally but sometimes. For example a ticket on the ECML valid into Kings Cross is additionally valid to use the underground to Moorgate.

It is not the norm.

Tickets to Waterloo will not let you use the tube to Paddington or Charing Cross or anywhare else AFAIK so I suspect you are right.

ert47 · 28 Jun 2010

north said:
Not normally but sometimes. For example a ticket on the ECML valid into Kings Cross is additionally valid to use the underground to Moorgate.

It is not the norm.

I'd think that has something to do with East Coast trains not stopping when it gets into London for passengers who'd otherwise change to get First Capital Connect into Moorgate from either Peterborough or Stevenage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would this apply with tickets from Waterloo into Bank? (as Waterloo & City was British Rail operated)

yorkie · 28 Jun 2010

ert47 said:
I'd think that has something to do with East Coast trains not stopping when it gets into London for passengers who'd otherwise change to get First Capital Connect into Moorgate from either Peterborough or Stevenage.

I think it's more to do with the history of BR services into Moorgate. Services used to run from King's Cross to Moorgate along the 'widened lines'.

ert47 · 29 Jun 2010

yorkie said:
I think it's more to do with the history of BR services into Moorgate. Services used to run from King's Cross to Moorgate along the 'widened lines'.

My bad, forgot about that - was thinking about the Northern City line :oops:

yorkie · 29 Jun 2010

Easy mistake to make!

Anyone got a time machine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcpb9oZ6f3g

doubletrackemble · 29 Jun 2010

What's the main purpose of having the 'London Terminals' station option. Is it to cover those stations to/from London where people could travel different routes i.e. Exeter to LT gives valid travel to either Paddington and Waterloo?

yorkie · 29 Jun 2010

Because it would be ridiculous trying to provide named stations on each ticket, and tickets aren't huge and only fit a limited amount of text. What would you do for a ticket from anywhere in Scotland to London? How would you fit Liverpool St, King's Cross, Euston, Marylebone, Paddington, Waterloo etc on the ticket?

doubletrackemble · 29 Jun 2010

The above posts seemed to be saying that L Terminals tkts could not generally be used for onward tube travel, but if the purpose of an L Terminal tkt is simply space-related then wouldn't those people then miss out on the onward travel? I've often seen Paddington marked on my tickets, but at other times I have seen L Terminals as well.

ert47 · 2 Jul 2010

doubletrackemble said:
The above posts seemed to be saying that L Terminals tkts could not generally be used for onward tube travel, but if the purpose of an L Terminal tkt is simply space-related then wouldn't those people then miss out on the onward travel? I've often seen Paddington marked on my tickets, but at other times I have seen L Terminals as well.

I think it must have something to do with whether there are multiple routings into London ending at different terminals. (but i think that conclusion has already been made

)
Or maybe its how you bought the ticket - if you specified what station you wanted to go to.

dan_atki · 2 Jul 2010

doubletrackemble said:
The above posts seemed to be saying that L Terminals tkts could not generally be used for onward tube travel, but if the purpose of an L Terminal tkt is simply space-related then wouldn't those people then miss out on the onward travel?

Onward Tube travel requires a travelcard, a single/return to Zone Uxx London (to complete 1 single/return journey within the zones specified), or something more cunning.

Say you wanted to go from Clapham Junction to Euston. The ticket would be marked as Clapham Junction to London Terminals in this case, and would be valid into either Victoria, Waterloo, or London Bridge, with additional validity at onward connections to Waterloo East, Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Blackfriars, or City Thameslink as allowed by the Routeing Guide.

However, if you were to purchase a Clapham Junction to South Hampstead ticket, then it would have the cross London marker and you'd be permitted to exit at Euston as desired. It is always worth looking for fares to the first station out of a terminal if you need a different one at the opposite end of zone 1, that way you get the required cross-London transfer included too.

Cross-London transfers

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