VauxhallandI
Established Member
I agree easier for the likes of you and me with hindsight.
Not so excusable for a Country/Government that presumably has plans for such scenarios and a great deal more information at the time?
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Coronavirus: Future of airlines and airports
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I agree easier for the likes of you and me with hindsight.
Not so excusable for a Country/Government that presumably has plans for such scenarios and a great deal more information at the time?
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RailUK Forums
Also, despite what some of the media would have you believe, while our hospitalisations and deaths continue to reduce that's not the case everywhere - for example deaths in Brazil are on an upward trajectory in quite a serious manner.
Ish - it wasn't declared a pandemic until the 11th of March, and looking back through SAGE's statements through February into March (ie, as it really got out of control) it went from
10th Feb: "the RWC for pandemic influenza would be an appropriate planning scenario at that point. SPI-M-O will keep updating their assessment of the reasonable worst case as the outbreak progresses." [9 confirmed cases]
17th Feb: "the RWC for pandemic influenza would be an appropriate planning scenario at that point. SPI-M-O will keep updating their assessment of the reasonable worst case as the outbreak progresses." [between 9 and 13 confirmed cases]
2nd Mar: "It is highly likely that there is sustained transmission of COVID-19 in the UK at present. It is almost certain that there will be sustained transmission in the UK in the coming weeks "..."The most recent Reasonable Worst Case planning assumptions were adopted by SAGE, following SPI-M-O’s recommendation" [36 confirmed cases]
ie, The evidence was that everything was fine and under control until it suddenly wasn't. It's all well and good assuming that because they're in Government they've got more information, but they seem to have been caught as off guard as everyone else as the situation rapidly developed. The eventual inevitable inquiry will certainly make for some juicy reading!
nlogax
Established Member
That was pretty much my point - back when Italy was looking like a C19 basket case that would have been the ideal time to introduce this. Re. hindsight, yes, I take your point. I think we should be limiting incoming quarantine rules to arrivals from countries where the situation is considerably worse than ours. Brazil, the US, etc.
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VauxhallandI
Established Member
Like a lot of these things it will probably take 10 years and then everyone will dispute the findings.
Apart from the 2 million in the UK or more who are exempted, and those that fly back via Eire ! (or you work for an F1 team
)Apart from the 2 million in the UK or more who are exempted, and those that fly back via Eire ! (or you work for an F1 team
*up to 2 million, based on some 'interesting' counting and thoughts, assuming you're taking that number from this article
Either the Government have updated it since that story came out, or the indy didn't read it properly (!) - For example, they claim
However, the exemptions has no such entry, and the closest one I can find states:
So any bus drivers who've gone on holiday or are returning from abroad not for work purposes won't be eligible.
Similarly, the indy claim:
Compare the actual entry on gov website:
Needless to say, the indy's calculations are quite optimistic, and certainly would seem to be a 'worst case' estimate assuming everyone started 'trying it on' and followed the letter of the exemptions rather than the spirit.
However, let's assume that it is 2 million people that are exempt - that's still a far more manageable number of cases that could potentially be imported compared to no quarantine, especially when all are required to also give journey and contact details. No quarantine can be 100% effective, especially when asymptomatic spread is such a large issue, but it's a lot easier to deal with any imported cases the fewer there are.
As for F1, I fail to see the problem (though granted I do have a vested interest!). They're in essence completely isolated from the rest of the country that they're going to, operating in small self contained groups to prevent it from spreading through the entire paddock, are travelling in isolation and are being tested regularly. Liberty are going to great personal expense to facilitate this, and taking all practical safeguards to manage it, indeed I'd welcome exemptions for any other groups who are willing to go to similar lengths to allow them to operate.
MMMM... Gov.Uk updated on 3rd June
F1 have no issues with, be good to see them running again, but in reality, they could have done the UK first, then gone abroad, and many see it as, well I can't do this / that, but hey lets bend the rule a bit and let F1 here for 2 weeks.The updated list is a little different from the one published on the first day, although to note that TOC / FOC Drivers, Station Staff, Shunters, Train Maintainence Satff at Depots, Signallers etc are not exempt, which 'could' prove interesting at some point !
Is the USA much worse than us ? Pop of USA 332 million, with 110,000 deaths UK Pop of 68 million, and 40,000 deaths
nlogax
Established Member
Looking at today's view from Worldometers it looks like there are a raft of countries that are only now seeing their peak numbers. The US is still in the top ten of new cases per day but it probably won't be there much longer.
Focusing on the top five or ten countries from the list would make sense in formulating a quarantine policy that adapts with a changing situation.
Yes and no - they could have opened in Silverstone but you've then still got to have the systems in place for Ferrari/Alpha Tauri/Alfa Romeo and Pirelli to enter the UK without having to quarantine themselves. It's a lot easier for them to start at Austria on the date the Grand Prix was supposed to happen, not to mention that with any luck the UK will be in an even better place by August - the races they're holding before then are all in countries with a pretty good state currently in terms of COVID outbreaks.
Why would they be? From my reading of the list, it's clearly aimed at allowing in people with skills we don't have 'at home' to carry out urgent tasks, or where crossing the border is part of their regular duties - there's no urgent shortage of operational staff in the UK, so there's clearly no need for them to be specifically exempted. The list isn't "if you are a doctor or aircraft technician you can go on holiday abroad, but if you're an office worker then tough" - the FCO's advice is still do not travel unless necessary, so those operational staff really shouldn't need an exemption as they shouldn't be leaving the country in the first place! I expect that the FCO advice will lift at the same time as the quarantine restrictions are removed.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Are those air bridges really becoming reality or just political propaganda to reassure people that they may be able to fly abroad this year?
I do not have an issue with that, I do know that many when the FCO allow are planning trips to France and Sapin etc, maybe some further afield, and yes they will have an extra 2 weeks when they get home, paid by HMG
but depending on staff levels, there maybe a slight reduction in services, if there are not enough to go round only needs 1 S&T member to away from a team, and they cannot do any work on track, have a signaller off in a manual box, then that could be 8 or 12 hrs with no service, alhtough if you are a Driver with Eurostar then you're fine.For NR it is:
ou’re only exempt if you’re either:
- working on automated ballast cleaning and track re-laying systems
- a specialist rail maintenance technicians maintaining or commissioning industrial machinery for use on national rail infrastructure
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Reading it literally (which people will do), if someone with key skills that can't be done remotely goes on holiday for a fortnight they are allowed to return without quarantining, providing their employer confirms their key status, because their return to the UK is essential for them to resume their job. There is some justification in this, because if the work is that important to the country then it shouldn't be arbitrarily stopped for 14 days.
I do not have an issue with that, I do know that many when the FCO allow are planning trips to France and Sapin etc, maybe some further afield, and yes they will have an extra 2 weeks when they get home, paid by HMG
For NR it is:
ou’re only exempt if you’re either:
But if the rest of the team are not there, then they will be not doing any of that ! so the exemption is not really needed.
- working on automated ballast cleaning and track re-laying systems
- a specialist rail maintenance technicians maintaining or commissioning industrial machinery for use on national rail infrastructure
By the time the FCO 'allow' trips abroad, either via airbridges with specific countries or more generally, they'll lift the quarantine restrictions, so any workers going off on a holiday to France or Spain won't be having an extra 2 weeks when they get home, and it certainly won't be on HM Treasury's chequebook! (indeed, anyone brazen enough to take a holiday abroad right now despite knowing about the quarantine should quite rightly not be entitled to nothing from the Government, and no more than SSP from their employer). How TOCs/FOCs/NR manage it to ensure that any possessions aren't short staffed nor signal boxes abandoned will be managed as they would at any other time in terms of managing leave but the bigger concern there will be that nobody is currently taking it and there'll be a mad rush at the end of the year as everyone tries to use it up simultaneously.
The NR exemptions are quite clearly there for when they have to bring in people to operate their on-track plant/deal with infrastructure that aren't available in the UK whilst the quarantine is ongoing - any other staff working that possession will be UK based and so won't have been off on holiday and needing to self isolate (or alternatively, they might have been but both they and their direct manager should be getting it in the neck if they have) - these exemptions aren't about allowing people to go off on holiday, they're about allowing the country to function whilst in effect completely shutting down the border.
Equally, if the work is that important to the UK they probably won't have gone off on a 14 day holiday either! That said, yes if they do decide to go on holiday abroad (despite FCO recommendations) and are needed back at work the day after getting back and their employer is happy to confirm this, then that's fair enough. I think that doing so is taking the p*ss to an extreme level, but it is allowable - I certainly don't think there's enough people who'll be willing to try it on, particularly as even those exempt from the 14 day isolation are hardly allowed to just swan in either
I think some sort of arrangement either with individual countries or EU as a whole is very likely. Portugal is keen to sign an agreement as are others that rely on tourism. I can't see the government beeing keen on unlimited global travel soon so some sort of arrangement (s) for the next few months seen likely.
I have time booked off in July and will go on holiday to somewhere in Europe that is allowing British tourists in + has decent health provision via EHIC, pack light and not carry much cash or valuables. I can WFH while I quarantine on return. I think Italy is the most likely destination but I probably won't book until a couple of days beforehand.
Apart from the 2 million in the UK or more who are exempted, and those that fly back via Eire ! (or you work for an F1 team
Ireland brought in a quarantine system last week. So that’s not really a way to bypass our system when it comes in.
Does it include airside transits?
From https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...vid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules
An airside transit would not have been in Ireland for 14 days (unless it was a really long gap between your flights), so you'd still have to quarantine in the UK.
Legally no but practically yes if someone booked with separate tickets and binned their X to Dublin ticket before boarding a Dublin to UK flight. I am not advocating this but I am sure plenty of idiots will do it and get away with it.
berneyarms
Established Member
Pedant note - unless you’re writing or speaking in Irish, the name of my country is Ireland!Apart from the 2 million in the UK or more who are exempted, and those that fly back via Eire ! (or you work for an F1 team
berneyarms
Established Member
Given that there are next to no flights operating as yet into/out of Ireland, and that the initial plans for flights in/out of Irish airports are modest to say the least, I don’t think it’s going to be that big a problem.
I believe there is a level of data sharing between the UK and Ireland, so the UK Border Force would be able to see your passport was associated with the first flight.
Stories such as https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...all-passenger-data-within-weeks-34571665.html seem to confirm that.
The bit I didn't quote earlier was
Which suggests the burden of proof might be that you have to show you have been in the CTA for 14 days before they let you in without giving your details, rather than a lack of proof you haven't.
Butts
Veteran Member
What is the likelihood of BA Flights to Orlando operating by the first week of August - Anybody ?
Butts
Veteran Member
My Flights on Ryanair from Birmingham to Dublin in early August were cancelled today. I was quite surprised this occurred at such an early juncture.
I’d say there’s a reasonable chance, as Virgin Atlantic are restarting their Orlando flights on 20 July, the Disney Parks are reopening the week before that, and the Universal Parks opened on Wednesday. BA will want a slice of the action.
UK domestic tourist industry does not have the capacity to cope with the demand for holidays in August. Many who normally avoid the school holidays won't have been able to go on holiday before and won't want to risk waiting until September incase there is a second wave. EU countries should be the first to reopen to Brits, Italy sort of already has for instance. The US should be high up the list. August seems likely as long as the US allows Brits in without quarantine.
berneyarms
Established Member
Border Force checks on inward Irish flights are intelligence led and you’re quite right that Irish & UK authorities share passenger data.
All passengers arriving into Irish airports (irrespective of where they’re coming from) are subject to an immigration check.
I was taught at School, that Southern Ireland is called Eire ! ( Southern Ireland at a push)
According to the' Points Guy' website B.A plan Long Haul from July with the following:
the 29 July routes break down as follows:
- 13 to North America: Atlanta (ATL), Boston (BOS), Chicago (ORD), Dallas (DFW), Los Angeles (LAX), Mexico City (MEX), Miami (MIA), New York (JFK), San Francisco (SFO), Seattle (SEA), Toronto (YYZ), Vancouver (YVR), Washington, D.C. (IAD);
- 5 to Africa: Accra (ACC), Cape Town (CPT), Johannesburg (JNB), Lagos (LOS), Nairobi (NBO);
- 10 to Asia and the Middle East: Beijing (PKX), Delhi (DEL), Dubai (DXB), Hong Kong (HKG), Mumbai (BOM), Seoul (ICN), Shanghai (PVG), Singapore (SIN), Tel Aviv (TLV), Tokyo (HND); and
- 1 to South America: Sao Paulo (GRU).
I am due to go to New Orleans on 29th August......maybe......maybe not !
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